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About LinkBacksor the experienceOriginally Posted by IBM
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I agree, except I would say attitude is as important as effort. I know plenty of people making a decent income (say £40-80k), who are intelligent, work hard BUT are too risk adverse, scared, or lacking in self-confidence to take next step into something better. Many of them are more than capable but for whatever personal hindrance, they’re not will to “risk” making the leap/change.
Generalising a bit, but how many higher income earners (£100k+) have you seen on this forum bitching and moaning about how horrible their jobs are? Far fewer than those making less I bet. Maybe there are fewer of them? My belief is that those who have achieved a higher income don’t bother bitching and moaning when something bothers them, they simply do something about it. This relates back to attitude, taking action whether it’s successful or not is better than simply moaning.
My company builds schools, and I assure you that a school with hundreds of pupils is very much a multi-million pound enterprise. Running these easily gets into 6-7 figures and higher as noted by snootyjim. As regards heads of universities, the median pay of the 154 vice chancellors (the effective heads of these organizations) is around £236,000 (around 19 earn more than £300k) - and that's their basic, there are other benefits and bonuses; but then typically a medium sized university may have around 30,000 students and an income of £200-£300m pa. which makes it a VERY large organization. Sorry, G4Z, but I get the feeling that you have some quite unrealistic ideas of how much these facilities cost to build and operate.
Think you missed my point by a country mile there...
The point i was making was that the average wage is low because the high earners those on £50k a year+ are an extremley small percentage of the overall population. There are many skilled people only earning around the average who will never earn £200k in one year, short of a once in a lifetime skag deal or a lottery win.
Really what I am getting at here is the huge disparity between high earners and nearly evrybody else and frankly I think its wrong when that money to pay those astronomical wages when it is coming from people earning a hell of a lot less. In my view there are no public sector jobs deserving of over £100k whatsoever. If those high earners feel they can earn more by heading out in the private sector then maybe that's where they belong.
Also I take issue with you saying 'IT people - don't make me laugh. The good ones get paid a fortune. The ones that don't are lazy/not intelligent enough/lack the skills to advance.'
Its' a total load of crap, I've seen useless people getting paid bucket loads and then there are also people like myself who if I wanted it could 'progress' but I made a decision on my priorities in life and work simply isn't one of them. I personally want to just have a happy life with enough resources to get by comfortably, I am not greedy, I don't want a lot and it really boils my piss the fact that I can't buy a house or even at the moment afford to live, even though I easily make the average income and live in the North of England. The biggest reason for this is of course house price inflation which was of course caused by load of credit being flung around and of course the massive tax burden pulling me down. Seeing somebody being paid obscene amounts like this for running 1 primary school is just a slap in the face imo. I shouldn't have to work my tits off just to eek out a living in a country this rich.
And Matty, no offence mate but you have yet to try and get by on your own in a job, I know only a little about your situation but trust me when you really start paying tax and doing the 9-5 slog every day it will annoy the hell out of you that the total amount of tax you paid last year only covers 10% of a primary school teachers payout.
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
Well yes what you are describing here is that top end public sector merry-go-round of inflation busting pay increases for the top public sector earners because of 'the market rate'.
I didn't say it wasn't a million pound budget, I said it (i.e a primary school of 300+ pupils) wasn't comperable to a million pound business and that it was much closer to a small business. the reason I said that was nothing to do with how much money was sloshing round, the reason I said that was because of the numbers of customers and employees involved.
I do of course realise that a university is a much bigger organisation, I did go to one. This head teacher isn't running an organisation that looks after 30,000 students though is he? Its 350.
btw for clairty, I still stand by that 84k comment for heads of university. IMO, if they don't like it then they should move to the private sector eh? £84k is a whopping wage and I am stunned that there seems to be no apprecation of that here.
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
How's this for one, do the highly skilled PGCE conversion and become the head teacher that is earning 200k?
Or is it because as you say, you decided to not prioritise work in life enough. Fair call, its your decision to make, I've certainly realised in the past that I put too much emphasis on work.
But, there is an irony, because we need those people who put work ahead. How to do it? Offer them money. If you've still not got enough people wanting to be head teachers, who are good enough to be, then you've got to offer more money.
If you where coming from a "Well 200k is a bit much, I'm CEO of a 500 employee organisation turning over £25M, and I only receive 180k, I'm hard done by" point of view I'd give you the time of day.
But, from your own admission, until your willing to work hard enough, and sacrifice what is needed to get there, then quite frankly, get your envy out of the equation.
Now a MEP, who is earning £150k+ for been an elected official (a job not renowned for its requirement of skill, intellect or hard work) then yes, by all means complain, its a job you could do, as you can clearly spell your own name, i believe that is the MEP requirements.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
I have issues with people being paid a load of money (especially in the public sector) for doing a bad job. In the private sector, if a company is that stupid (and yes, I know it happens a lot) then that’s their problem. However, in the public sector it’s being funded by an almost bottomless pit (economic repercussions aside). This is where it’s extra insulting to tax payers.
Sometimes the standard public budget simply can’t attract the talent needed for the position. What then? Settle for third best and status quo? That’s not effective management. This applies to all areas of the market. If you consistently over charge then you are unlikely to get your rate. It’s that simple. If someone else can do the same job for less then over time, the market will correct itself…in theory anyway.
Hang on a minute. So you’ve made your life choices based on what’s important to you (which is an excellent ethos) but you also want the rewards garnered from “sacrifices” that others make to obtain it? Okay, now that just sounds greedy and unreasonable. So you want to work fewer hours, maybe lower stress in a less populated area and still expect the same money as those on the other end of the spectrum? Ie. More hours, sardined into public transport, and live in shoeboxes in the city? That’s hardly fair.
You may think that £200k is an obscene amount but there have been many solid arguments that contradict this. Fine, it’s your opinion but it’s not “fact”. How is this slap in the face? Do you manage project the same scale as this person? Do you invest as many hours into work each day? Do you shoulder the burden if things fail? Let’s compare apples to apples here.I personally want to just have a happy life with enough resources to get by comfortably, I am not greedy, I don't want a lot and it really boils my piss the fact that I can't buy a house or even at the moment afford to live, even though I easily make the average income and live in the North of England. The biggest reason for this is of course house price inflation which was of course caused by load of credit being flung around and of course the massive tax burden pulling me down. Seeing somebody being paid obscene amounts like this for running 1 primary school is just a slap in the face imo. I shouldn't have to work my tits off just to eek out a living in a country this rich.
I don’t know where you live but would you move to a busier city like Manchester, Birmingham, or London for more money? What would you sacrifice, if anything to improve your lifestyle and economic condition? If nothing, then you’ve proven my point about the difference in attitude between the have’s and have not’s of the world.
Not at all. I addressed the individual vocations you referenced to support the point that low wages are a result of low skills/drive/responsibilities.
The total number of people earning above 50k may be a very small percentage, but their total earnings is a relatively substantial percentage. This means for the average to be so low there must be a huge number of people earning low wages. Again in support of my point regarding low skills/drive/responsibilities.
Repeat after me. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
'Course you do
As pointed out by Animus already - fine, don't make work a priority. But don't join debates essentially about capitalism and complain about not being able to afford stuff. Can't afford a house? Get extra qualifications/take on more responsibility/kiss the bosses arse/struggle and strive to get ahead/get that promotion/chase that raise/earn more money/buy that house.Its' a total load of crap, I've seen useless people getting paid bucket loads and then there are also people like myself who if I wanted it could 'progress' but I made a decision on my priorities in life and work simply isn't one of them. I personally want to just have a happy life with enough resources to get by comfortably, I am not greedy, I don't want a lot and it really boils my piss the fact that I can't buy a house or even at the moment afford to live, even though I easily make the average income and live in the North of England. The biggest reason for this is of course house price inflation which was of course caused by load of credit being flung around and of course the massive tax burden pulling me down. Seeing somebody being paid obscene amounts like this for running 1 primary school is just a slap in the face imo. I shouldn't have to work my tits off just to eek out a living in a country this rich.
And Matty, no offence mate but you have yet to try and get by on your own in a job, I know only a little about your situation but trust me when you really start paying tax and doing the 9-5 slog every day it will annoy the hell out of you that the total amount of tax you paid last year only covers 10% of a primary school teachers payout.
And as far as the 9-5 slog....try 8am until 7pm slog....evenings, weekends, holidays....
Don't like it? Tough, that's life.
Take all your complaints and £2.30 and you can buy a Costa Coffee....and yes, that's expensive.
edit : sorry, that last line came across quite nasty. It was not intended. Would a smiley at the end help?
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About as stunned as those of us who have worked for our six figure (or higher) incomes. You seem to have little or no appreciation for what others choose to sacrifice to achieve this. I’m not saying everyone should but those that choose to deserve their rewards don’t they?
I personally find work is purely there to fund everything that is more important to me in life. I’m a lazy sod so I like to maximise my income for minimal work, hence why I stick with IT even though I find it boring as hell.
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