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Thread: The cost of University

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    The cost of University

    So the Cable is that future uni students will be paying a punitive tax.

    Oh dear.

    Its almost as stupid as a 2yr program.

    A cap-less tax on graduates. But what pray happens if they go abroad? If they pay themselves via dividends?
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: The cost of University

    Not many details have been released from what I've read, but as I understand it they want to replace tuition fees with a on-going tax on graduates earning over 20k.....

    Absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.

    If this were to hit me, and I'm hoping it doesn't as I am paying tuition fees now and this should be to replace that rather on top of it.
    But from what I gather, new student can go to uni without paying anything, and leave the country after and effective have free university education. (I would definitely do this....)
    Or, someone who doesn't bother getting a job, or at least a higher paying job after they graduate, also get a university education on the cheaper compared to someone who is successful - I can't see how this is fair, just because someone made the most of their education should be penalised and subsidise the people who bum about at uni, scrape a pass and come out and get a low paying job. What you do after uni doesn't change how much you cost the uni while you were there....

    How is the government going to fund the gap between now and when graduates actually start earning and contributing? They surely can't back date this tax so that anyone that has graduated from uni in the past, say ten years, has to pay this new tax. So they have to wait for the new students to come out of uni in three/four years time and start earning next to nothing and therefore still not contributing, it'd be at least 10 years before they start any decent revenue stream from this.....where are they going to get this money amongst the £200m cuts to universities.

    I just think this is a totally unfair tax and doesn't make sense to me.
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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Re: The cost of University

    What's wrong with the current system? From someone who has just graduate it seems fairly sensible to me?

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    dbh
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    Re: The cost of University

    Personally I think the MPs should take a salary reduction instead of taxing students who are just graduating / yet alone haven't even found a job yet.

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    Re: The cost of University

    Quote Originally Posted by Andehh View Post
    What's wrong with the current system? From someone who has just graduate it seems fairly sensible to me?
    Seems to be just a way to get people to pay more without actually raising top-up fees.
    You've got to have a dream, if you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?

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    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
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    Re: The cost of University

    Quote Originally Posted by dbh View Post
    Personally I think the MPs should take a salary reduction instead of taxing students who are just graduating / yet alone haven't even found a job yet.
    Yes, reducing the salary of a few hundred people will balance out against increased taxation on thousands of others...

    I think it's a stupid idea, what's wrong with the student loan system? Or more to the point, what loopholes would the new system close?

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    Re: The cost of University

    As far as I'm concerned, the current student loan is a tax (1% over £15,000 I think) and seems really quite fair as you're only paying back what you borrwed. The new idea seems to be indefinate, which sounds like it would furtehr complicate the tax system.

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    Pork & Beans Powerup Phage's Avatar
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    Re: The cost of University

    Mind bogglingly stupid. Increasing the barriers to entry to education at this time is plain wrong.
    Also - what about those people who have brought their degrees with them when they immigrated ? Tax them as well ?
    Society's to blame,
    Or possibly Atari.

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: The cost of University

    How about reducing the number of pointless degree that no one is ever going to make any money from anyway...?
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    Re: The cost of University

    Quote Originally Posted by Salazaar View Post
    How about reducing the number of pointless degree that no one is ever going to make any money from anyway...?

    But then who would fill all those Social Theatre Studies & History of Fine Art jobs that the economy literally depends on!!!

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    Re: The cost of University

    Seems a crazy idea indeed, like everyone is saying people could just work elsewhere in the world later to avoid it. Just increase the fees upfront and be done with it imo.

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    Re: The cost of University

    Just increase the fee and force companies to sponsor the students. There is always the choice of Open University for people who can't afford the fee.

    The department I was in was so tight on budget that there is no free software nor free print credit not even afford the electricity and staffing needed to let students use the flight simulator (itself cost over 1m) for more than 30 minutes a year. Not even free P4 computers that was abused to death and dare to charge 60 quids for it.
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    Re: The cost of University

    Quote Originally Posted by Barrichello View Post
    Seems a crazy idea indeed, like everyone is saying people could just work elsewhere in the world later to avoid it. Just increase the fees upfront and be done with it imo.
    No crazier than the current system, when people could just work abroad to avoid paying back the student loan - the problems and issues with doing that are exactly the same as with doing it under a graduate tax.

    Before everyone gets all irate about this new system, bear in mind L-

    - it's a proposed idea to be looked at by a "long review"
    - no matter how you raise the finance, the basic problem, university funding, remains, and is going to get worse.

    In an ideal world, university would be free. The problem is, as ex-Chief Sec to the treasury Liam Bryne so eloquently (if supposedly in jest) put it

    Dear Chief Secretary,

    I’m afraid there is no money.

    Kind regards — and good luck!

    Liam.”
    That's it ... no money.

    And typically, when times are hard an unemployment rising, more school-leavers want to go to uni. Demand is rising, universities are already moaning about the costs and lack of funding, and it's going to get worse. Given the economic situation and the "25%" cuts most departments face, it's cloud cuckoo land to suppose large sums of extra cash are coming from government to fund uni's, so they are almost inevitably going have to :-

    - raise fees, or
    - cut numbers, or
    - most likely, both.

    Labour had already cut funding by £449m for the 2010-11 year, and more cuts look likely. The existing review, set up by Labour, looks likely to be recommending a rise in the cap on fees, so student costs are already expected to go up. It's simply a fact of economic life. The deficit is large, and needs to come down, and the scale of the problem suggests it's going to be hard everywhere, and uni funding is no exception.

    And what's wrong with the concept of a graduate tax anyway? After all, it means no upfront costs, and payback is according to ability to pay. The more you earn, the more you can pay. I don't see the conceptual problem with that. If a graduate ends up on a 6 figure salary as a commercial lawyer or hospital consultant, why not pay a bit more than a primary school teacher or a social worker on a quarter, or less, of that 6-figure salary?


    No, as far as I'm concerned, the basic concept is fine.

    Even Labour agree. The Shadow education secretary, Ed Balls, ia quoted as saying
    When I was a Treasury adviser I argued for a graduate tax, because it was a fairer system which meant no upfront costs and no assumed debt for students and their families.

    It means graduates pay a contribution to the cost of their university education, but only once they are in work and clearly based on their ability to pay.
    So, broadly, Labour and the ConLib coalition are in agreement. And, whether this is what gets done or something else, something has to address the problem in uni funding.

    So it's proposed that this be looked at. And, as always, the devil will be in the detail. The impact of this is impossible to ascertain until concrete proposals are unveiled, and as the review hasn't yet happened, we don't yet know what those will be.

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    dbh
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    Re: The cost of University

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Yes, reducing the salary of a few hundred people will balance out against increased taxation on thousands of others...

    I think it's a stupid idea, what's wrong with the student loan system? Or more to the point, what loopholes would the new system close?
    Seeing as some are earning over 50k it might help

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    Re: The cost of University

    As someone who is planning on graduating in 2012 this worries me greatly.

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    Re: The cost of University

    Quote Originally Posted by dbh View Post
    Seeing as some are earning over 50k it might help
    Well, as you were talking about MPs, I have to point out you're wrong there - it isn't "some" that earn (or at least, are paid) over £50k, it's all of them. An MP's salary is currently £65,738, and some, like Ministers, Select Committee Chairmen and the speaker, earn more than that.

    But, given that there are 650 of them, even if they took a 50% pay cut, it would only reduce the salary bill for standard MPs salary by £21.3 million, which would put a tiny dent in the university budget. Given that there are just under 2 million students (around 1.96-1.97 million), even that wildly unrealistic 50% cut would only mean about £10.80p each. It won't exactly make a difference to the size of the student loan, and in fact, barely represents even a cheap night out.

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