Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

  1. #1
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    NOTE : This is not about whether he was guilty or not. If y0u want to discuss that, please do it in your own thread, not this one. As far as this thread is concerned, he is guilty as convicted.



    As we all know, the convicted Lockerbie bomber, Libyan al Megrahi, was very controversially released nearly a year ago, because he had an estimated 3 months to live.

    The US, both citizens and government, were duly (and justifiably, in my view) outraged at the time, but the furore died down, only to be resurrected now, together with allegations and questions about BP's involvement.

    The question is .... is this about al Megrahi, or is it anti-BP opportunism?

    There's a couple of points.

    First, the British (as opposed to Scottish) government had extensive negotiations with Libya over a Prisoner Transfer Agreement (PTA), and a Treaty was eventually signed. As far as I can tell, the only Libyan prisoner this would have applied to at the time was al Megrahi. About the same time, the government were in negotiations with Libya about oil drilling rights and, amid much very public hoopla, a deal was subsequently agreed .... after al Megrahi's release was organised.

    And, naturally, BP was keen for the deal to go ahead, and was talking to government about it. That's standard practice. It may be, and has certainly been alleged, that BP pressured the government over the PTA because al Megrahi's continued imprisonment was a stumbling block to the Libyans.

    The notion of releasing al Megrahi under the PTA, and the application denied.

    Second, al Megrahi was then released under the procedures for Compassionate release, on the basis of terminal prostate cancer and a rather poor prognosis. It was stated that a life expectancy of three months was "reasonable".

    However, the medical evidence made it explicitly clear that this was an estimate, and that it is not correct to see it as a guaranteed maximum.

    The decision on compassionate release was made by the Scottish, not British, government, and specifically, by the Scottish Justice secretary.



    Is the current resurfacing of US anger over his release simply because he's lived so much longer than anticipated, or because it's an opportunity to continue to bash BP. It;s also worth pointing out that BP wasn't the only oil company to be keen to exploit improved relations with Ghaddafi and Libya ... so was US oil giant ExxonMobil.

    Also, while BP might have been keen for the PTA to be signed, the application to free al Megrahi under the PTA was turned down. Very clear statements have been made that the compassionate release was based solely on the procedure having been followed and the medical evidence provided, and that absolutely no consideration of oil or representation from BP were received.


    So it seems to me that while the US, both citizens and government, were quite right to be erm ... peeved .... about his release, as indeed were many people including me, I'll failing to see that it has much if anything to do with BP,and yet that seems to be driving the furore, judging both by statements from senators and placards from protesters.

    So what is this ... righteous anger, or hypocritical witch hunt?




    Oh, and by the way, when doctors give a "best opinion" of the time scale of the progress of terminal cancer, they can be significantly out. I have personal experience of that, in both directions.

  2. #2
    hexus.zombeh! format's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Strath Uni, Glasgow
    Posts
    2,747
    Thanks
    512
    Thanked
    179 times in 131 posts
    • format's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Abit IP35 Pro
      • CPU:
      • Core2Duo E6750 @ 3.2ghz
      • Memory:
      • 4GB GSkill PC8000
      • Storage:
      • WD500GB+750GB F1 + 250GB external drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Geforce GTX260
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520w
      • Case:
      • Antec P182 + 3 x Nexus fans
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • 24" DGM
      • Internet:
      • BeThere* Pro

    Re: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    ving the furore, judging both by statements from senators and placards from protesters.

    So what is this ... righteous anger, or hypocritical witch hunt?




    Both, IMO.

    It was a gaffe on the Scottish government's side to let me Megrahi go and now have him living more than a year. Most people in the UK and US won't accept that the estimate of 3 months was the best that the doctors could have done.

    As much as it pains me to say, I think Mr Cameron has it more or less correct here. Some might not agree with the decision but the procedure through which it was made was correct.
    ~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley




  3. #3
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    9,948
    Thanks
    501
    Thanked
    399 times in 255 posts

    Re: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    NOTE : This is not about whether he was guilty or not. If y0u want to discuss that, please do it in your own thread, not this one.
    Request respected here:

    http://forums.hexus.net/general-disc...ml#post1954473

  4. #4
    Mostly Me Lucio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Tring
    Posts
    5,163
    Thanks
    443
    Thanked
    448 times in 351 posts
    • Lucio's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P
      • CPU:
      • AMD FX-6350 with Cooler Master Seldon 240
      • Memory:
      • 2x4GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance
      • Storage:
      • 128GB Toshiba, 2.5" SSD, 1TB WD Blue WD10EZEX, 500GB Seagate Baracuda 7200.11
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 270X 4GB
      • PSU:
      • 600W Silverstone Strider SST-ST60F
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF XB
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8.1 64Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 2032BW, 1680 x 1050
      • Internet:
      • 16Mb Plusnet

    Re: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    I'm not convinced that this isn't just an attack on BP to be honest, as it's been incredibly helpful for Obama to take the focus off his healthcare reforms and onto foreign policy.

    As with anything in politics, the picture is bound to be more complicated that stated in news, for all we know the denial of the application under the PTA was explicitly designed to give the whole thing an air of "it wasn't us, it was really him" and ensure that the Scottish government took the flak.


    TBH, my view on his release comes down to "well at least we're not paying to help make a sick murderer comfortable"

    (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/) (\___/)
    (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=)
    (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(") (")_(")


    This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!

  5. #5
    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    7,713
    Thanks
    951
    Thanked
    690 times in 463 posts
    • chuckskull's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z77-D3H
      • CPU:
      • 3570k @ 4.7 - H100i
      • Memory:
      • 32GB XMS3 1600mhz
      • Storage:
      • 256GB Samsung 850 Pro + 3TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 980Ti Classified
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic M12 700W
      • Case:
      • Corsair 500R
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus VG278HE
      • Internet:
      • FTTC

    Re: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    Agreed with format, bit of both tbh.

    As for compassionate release, sometimes it's suitable. In this case though, I'd have to say if you're convicted of killing that many people. You get put in your 6x12ft concrete room and stay there til you die. Cancer or no.

    Not everyone deserves compassion.

  6. #6
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,748
    Thanks
    1,787
    Thanked
    3,285 times in 2,647 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    Just the usual US confusion of the differences between the UK, Great Britain and nations such as Scotland and England.

  7. #7
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Preston, Lancs
    Posts
    6,137
    Thanks
    563
    Thanked
    138 times in 99 posts
    • nichomach's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3
      • CPU:
      • AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 95W
      • Memory:
      • 16GB DR3
      • Storage:
      • 1x250GB Maxtor SATAII, 1x 400GB Hitachi SATAII
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Zotac GTX 1060 3GB
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 500W
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster Elite 430
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 20" TFT
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media Cable

    Re: al Megrahi - current US actions justified, or anti-BP witch hunt

    I don't think that there's much doubt that there's a LOT of opportunism here, not (probably) so much by the White House as a bunch of senators who see an opportunity for a free hit on the villain of the hour; boosts their approval ratings and capitalises on anti-British/anti-BP sentiment. The PTA MAY have been influenced by/affected trade considerations with Libya, but that agreement was comprehensively rejected by the Scottish Executive; Holyrood took one look at it and the circumstances around its negotiation and didn't want anything to do with it. Operating under the presumption that Megrahi was/is guilty as charged and convicted (and respecting Saracen's request), I don't believe that a person guilty of that many premeditated murders should receive a compassionate release at all. I believe that a whole life tariff is the only appropriate response and I mean whole life. Their family should be treated compassionately, and enabled to see him if that is their wish, but the extent of our compassion should be to ensure that he receives the same quality of care and treatment that we would offer to any person, regardless of their crime, for the remainder of his incarceration.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •