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Thread: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

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    LWA
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    Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Dear All,
    We purchased a LG 50PC56 approximately 18 months ago. Recently it has developed a sporadic issue where 11 vertical magenta cyan and yellow lines are displayed on the right hand side of the TV (please see the attached photograph).

    We've checked all connections and everything is configured as expected. Further these lines show up no matter what input you use (e.g. AV1, AV2, HDMI, etc).



    Speaking to LG they explained there is nothing they could do as the TV was out of warranty and they directed me to a local repair place.

    I also spoke to Currys - where the TV was purchased - who were equally unhelpful.

    Speaking to a local TV repair place, they advised the panel has failed and the issue will only get worse. They also advised to push my consumer rights as a TV should not fail after just 18 months.

    My question is, what rights do I have? And where would be best to start my line of complaint?


    My thoughts are at the moment are to write a letter to Currys head office explaining the issue and detailing exactly how unhelpful they and LG are being.

    Any advice given would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Leon

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    you must say all products in the eu have 2 year warrenty.

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Pretty much what Petercook7 says - take a look at http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargain...icepage_id=131

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Quote Originally Posted by petercook7 View Post
    you must say all products in the eu have 2 year warrenty.
    It's up to the comsumer to prove it was faulty at the time of sale and not down to misuse however

    After six months, the burden of proof switches to the buyer and it is they who must then show a fault is due to some inherent problem, something that can be almost impossible in all but the most straightforward cases.

    Sounds complicated?

    For example, the plasma TV you bought five months ago stops working without explanation and you return to the shop you bought it from, expecting a refund. The store manager is reluctant but can find no explanation for the fault. There are no scratches or damage to show it has been dropped, or signs of water damage. Complying with the Sales of Goods Act, he understands without such proof he must refund you money.

    But were the fault to develop at seven months, he would not need such proof. The TV may show no signs of damage or misuse, but the store manager no longer needs to show there was any. Instead, you must show to him that there was a shoddy component or design fault that caused the problem. In the absence of these things, he is under no obligation to return your money.

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    AFAIK, there's no such thing as an "EU 2 year warranty". The EU says that you must be able to take a case such as this to court within a minimum of 2 years, and in the UK it's 7 years anyway, so it's irrelevant.

    You need to go via SOGA and small claims court if Currys won't help out, which will involve you forking out for an engineer to assess the damage.

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Splash View Post
    Pretty much what Petercook7 says - take a look at http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargain...icepage_id=131
    Finlay and Snooty are, in my opinion, right, and that Thisismoney article in, again in my opinion, simply wrong.

    It refers to the "text" of the EU directive and gives a link, that doesn't actually link to the text. The actual directive, for those that can stand the gobbledygook legal of EU directives is actually here.

    Second, it says that the EU directive does not link consumer rights to "inherent" faults. Again, wrong. See Article 3.1.

    Third, it misrepresents (in my view) what the legislation actually says, and it may be down to differently used terminology.

    That directive addresses, among other things, both consumer rights embedded by statute, and "guarantees" offered by sellers or, indeed, manufacturers.

    On the seller/manufacturer guarantee bit, what it does is enforce certain minimum standards, such as a requirement to inform consumers of their statutory rights and that any guarantees cannot rescue those rights, and it acts to make most statements and assertions made by sellers/manufacturers binding, and the circumstances under which that is not the case. That's Article 6. And it doesn't impose a requirement for sellers/manufacturers to offer a guarantee at all, let alone a two year one.

    Additionally, it addresses a requirement for all member states to harmonise minimum standards of consumer legislation. That's Article 2, and it specifies the nature of "conformity with contract", like "fit for purpose, etc.. This is the consumer legislation implemented, in the UK, by the Sale of Goods Act.

    The rights of the consumer are in Article 3, and refer to non-conformity with contract. As that EU directive is not binding on companies or individuals, and merely acts to be binding on national governments to introduce domestic legislation to implement the mandatory elements, the UK amended the Sale of Goods Act to implement the requirements of the directive, and particularly, Article 3.

    The Time Limit section, article 5, refers specifically to the rights conferred in Article 3(2) which relate to consumer rights, not the references to seller/manufacturer guarantees in Article 6.

    GThisismoney say
    Sounds complicated?

    For example, the plasma TV you bought five months ago stops working without explanation and you return to the shop you bought it from, expecting a refund. The store manager is reluctant but can find no explanation for the fault. There are no scratches or damage to show it has been dropped, or signs of water damage. Complying with the Sales of Goods Act, he understands without such proof he must refund you money.

    But were the fault to develop at seven months, he would not need such proof. The TV may show no signs of damage or misuse, but the store manager no longer needs to show there was any. Instead, you must show to him that there was a shoddy component or design fault that caused the problem. In the absence of these things, he is under no obligation to return your money.

    In reality, most retailers offer returns policies that extend this 6-month period to 12 months. But after that refunds are hard to come by.

    So how does the EU rule change things?

    The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. ..... the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'

    As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.
    Under that "sounds complicated" but, a decent explanation of the burden of proof is given. They then ask how the EU directive changed things. Well, the bit about the six month switch in the burden of proof is part of the UK legislative changes that occurred when the EU directive was implemented. Before that, the SoGA put the burden of proof on the consumer, but now, as a result if the directive being implemented, for the first six months, it's on the seller.

    As for
    'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'
    , as far as I'm concerned, the two year period is on conformity with contract statutory requirements, not a seller guarantee. That is certainly the case as far as the SoGA is concerned, and for the reasons given above, it is also in my view, what the EU directive requires and not what some people have taken it to mean, which is that sellers must give a two year warranty.

    And to be honest, a two year guarantee requirement would be utterly daft. You buy a banana and take it back after 18 months because its "faulty"? That's precisely why goods are required to conform to contractat time of delivery ... and part of "conforming" is a reasonable durability in the goods, bearing in mind the nature of the goods and the use to which they've been put.

    Finally, the This is money says
    But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.
    Erm, it's implicit in what it says, if not explicit.

    First, it says the goods must comply at time of delivery ... Article 3.1

    The seller shall be liable to the consumer of any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.
    Article 5.3 then then stipulates that for the first 6 months, 'faulty' goods are presumed to have lacked conformity at time of delivery unless it can be proven otherwise. This is Money
    are quite right in that the Directive doesn't stipulate what happens after that, so it doesn't specify that the consumer is liable. The directive simply doesn't express an opinion or requirement either way, after 6 months, and as the default position under UK law is that it's down to the consumer to prove lack of conformity, and the Directive doesn't require any change to that, then it's still down to the consumer to prove.

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWA View Post
    ....
    Any advice given would be appreciated.
    You have two options, a letter campaign, and the legal route, in my opinion. I would suggest that even if you are prepared to go the legal route, do the letters first. Courts appreciate it when people try everything feasible and reasonable before going to court ... and don't like it when they don't. It will stand you in good stead and, if you have a claim, give you evidence of effort to avoid court.

    So write and complain. Be polite, be clear in what you are complaining about, and be as brief and concise as you can. Don't wax lyrical, don't go on a rant, and don't drop every little thing you can think of into the letter - concentrate what matters. Don't (in my opinion) moan about lack of service or rude staff. It's impossible to prove, and looks unprofessional, especially if you end up in court.

    If that doesn't work, then the court option is via the Small Claims track of County Court., It's relatively cheap, distinctly informal, and designed to be accessible and not intimidating. So it'll usually be in a small room, with minimal people and no gowns and wigs, etc.

    So the question is .... do you have a case?

    As per the above discussion, the question is .... was the fault "inherent" at time of delivery? In other words, if it was a design fault, if it was a manufacturing defect, if it was poor quality components and one failed to last a "reasonable" time, then it was inherent. On the other hand, if it has failed not as a result of the set itself, but of anything you've done, then it wasn't inherent. So, if it was physical damage, or water spillage, or if you didn't comply with installation instructions and inadequate air gap led to overheating and that's why a component failed, then it's down to you not the seller.

    Let's deal with the manufacturer too. If they offered a guarantee, and you knew of and relied on the guarantee when buying, then they are legally liable and can be held to it. If they made public statements that you knew of and relied upon, then they can be held to account, as well. But generally, they don't make those kind of statements and certainly, they do not have the extent of liability the seller does. So unless they have breached their guarantee (and within whatever time limit they offer) or such statements, forget the manufacturer.

    So ..... the seller. As per above, for faults found within 6 months from delivery, the seller is liable unless they can prove they are not, After that, they are not liable unless you can prove the fault was inherent. How can you do that? Usually, by an independent engineer's report. You will get to pay for that, but if you win, you'll usually get it back. But don't just go out an commission a report. It will have to be an independent source authorised by the court, They have a procedure for doing that, and you fail to abide by it at your own risk.

    So, if the letters fail, and I'd suggest two or three before going to court, then you'll have to either be prepared to fight it in court, or give up. If you fight it, check out the small claims route. You can get the forms from the court, or you can file online. You'll have to pay a fee, but again, you'll get it back from the other side if you win. IIRC, you can engage legal help, but generally, if you do, you're not likely to get that back. The whole ethos if the small claims court is to keep the costs down to keep it within the realm of those that aren't loaded, and one way is to discourage both sides by making them pay for any legal help they get. The same is true of expenses - some you can get back, some you can't, so read up on the rules and don't spend out when you don't need to if you expect recompense.

    It's not hard, it's not particularly complicated and it's not even especially time consuming, but you do have to be prepared to go through the process .... and you have to be prepared for the possibility that you might not win. It is certainly true that a product simply not lasting a reasonable time can amount to "lack of conformity", but a lot will depend on what that engineer's report has to say, and you won't know until you've got it. So, however you cut it, it's a bit of a gamble. If you've got court fees (maybe £50 or so, from what I remember), and a report (who knows ... £100? £200?) and any sundry expenses to pay for, you could end up out of pocket to that amount and still with no TV if you fight and lose. Are you prepared to risk it, and are you sure enough you are in the right to do so?

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    LWA
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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Thanks everyone for the prompt responses (especially Saracen for drafting such a lengthy reply).

    I will get a letter drafted up and sent on to Currys. I'll update this thread as and when I get any responses.

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    You're welcome, LWA. Help is what forums are for.

    I ought to add, just for clarity, though I'd guess you already know .... my comments are only my opinions (not those of HEXUS) and not advice, and I'm not a lawyer.

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    LWA
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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I ought to add, just for clarity, though I'd guess you already know .... my comments are only my opinions (not those of HEXUS) and not advice, and I'm not a lawyer.
    Noted sir, thanks again.

    One final question: at whom do you think I would be best directing my letter(s) at?

    I've found two addresses so far:

    Currys
    Head Office
    Dixons House
    Maylands Avenue
    Hemel Hempstead
    Herts
    HP2 7TG

    Mr John Browett
    Chief Executive
    DSG International PLC
    Maylands Avenue
    Hemel Hempstead
    Herfordshire
    HP2 7TG

    Thanks,
    Leon

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    Both, with a CC at the bottom, sending it to 'Currys' will just get it passed to the standard customer service, with the CE you at least have some small chance of him actually seeing it before they then probably pass it on to the same standard customer services

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    You'll generally find they'll give you vouchers to get a replacement TV. The fault it's showing is that of a failing panel. It's going to be far cheaper to replace the TV rather than buy a new panel for it and Curry's know this.

    You'll get quite a standard tone of "sorry its out of warranty" when you phone but when pushed really hard with a letter they will fall over quite quickly and give you what you want.

    When you get your next TV, don't buy an LG, when I worked for Curry's I was always exchanging these TV's or booking them in for repair.

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    Re: Plasma TV Failed After 18 Months - What Rights Do I have?

    A friend recently had problems with an 18 month old phone that had died, purchased it from Currys. He originally complained in store with no luck, then went to CAB, they drafted a letter, he sent the letter to Currys, few weeks later he recieved an offer of a new phone. I think his letter pointed out that the phone shouldnt die after 18 months, he would like it replaced, next stop smalls claims court.

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