Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
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Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Considering some of the reactors are the better part of 40 years old it is quite impressive TBH that the damage was not worse.
Of course the anti-nuclear crowd are having a field day about this but I wonder if many people have thought about the effect an 8.9 magnitude earthquake would have on any power generating faculty?
Something like a dam would probably of more immediate concern TBH.
Well, if a dam goes it's certainly true that a lot of people get killed if they happen to be in the way of the water. But I guess there's a couple of differences between a disaster like that, and a potential nuclear one. One is that once the water has gone, it's gone, but a nuclear disaster could leave damage lasting decades. And the second is the insidious nature of the health risks, both in their nature and in the potential for very long term health issues.
And I can't help but suspect that radiation risks to health have a rather special meaning to the Japanese, given Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I know that's a very different situation, but radiation dangers are radiation dangers and it'd be astonishing if those events didn't raise a few special demons in the national psyche. I'd suspect that the only other people on earth that might really understand quite how that feels would be those living in the vicinity of Chernobyl.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I suspect the notion of radiation raises particular demons for the Japanese people. I suspect that the spectre of radiation elevates the psychological impact of events a notch or two above the impact of an "ordinary" natural disaster, if there is such a thing, even a really bad one like this appears to be.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Low level radiation wind is heading to Tokyo and could be there in under 10 hours. What "low level" means, I don't know but judging from how they are writing about the dangerous levels near the nuclear plant, I'm guessing it's still hazardous to health but not deadly enough to warrant evacuation.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
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Originally Posted by
sleepyhead
Low level radiation wind is heading to Tokyo and could be there in under 10 hours. What "low level" means, I don't know but judging from how they are writing about the dangerous levels near the nuclear plant, I'm guessing it's still hazardous to health but not deadly enough to warrant evacuation.
What low level means it is higher that the level you would expect in the normal background however lower that the radiation level that if you were exposed to it for a year would put you over the safe level (for a member of the public (non controlled radiation worker)).
This is not to be confused with low level radioactive waste which is stuff like gloves that have been exposed to radiation without themselves being naturally radioactive (If they have been contaminated then its medium).
Generally the stuff that is being released at the moment has a short half life, its the heavy metals if the core burns to atmosphere that are the problem, as they much longer to decay, and can become lodged in the body. (Which is why they give people an overdose of iodine, the fills the bodies supply so it does not absorb any more.) While uranium and Plutonium are actually quite safe (radiation wise) its the daughter products like Americium which is a high gamma emitter, and the fact that many heavy metals are very poisonous that is the more serious risk. By the sounds of it though, only one of the reactors looks risky when it comes to containment failure.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
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1057: Germany's Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle says that what we are witnessing in Japan is an "apocalypse". He says the international community must do everything it can to help Japan and adds it may shift Europe's approach to nuclear power: "After what happened in Japan it cannot be business as usual. This has consequences not only for Germany's energy policy but it will also have consequences for the international community's stance as well as the debate in Europe, and that's how we will now approach it."
I'd really want to hear where we are going to 'shift' our approach to as opposed to them just issuing these statements...
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
I'd be more interested to hear justification on changing major policy based on virtually one off, unprecedented events. One might as well plan for a dinosaur resurgence eating the fuel rods tbfh.
It's as likely to happen as the one of the strongest ever quakes AND a tsumami hitting somewhere not seismically active which is landlocked!
Morons. We can't live life based on "what if a 10 billion to 1 event happens??!?!?"...We'd never leave the bloody house, which is probably more likely to collaspe randomly/burn down that this kind of event.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Agent
I'd really want to hear where we are going to 'shift' our approach to as opposed to them just issuing these statements...
The shift will mean that through politicians pandering to parts of the public to gain votes Europe will either end up with not enough power generating capacity in the next 20 years or an increasing dependence on Russia.
At least if no more nuclear plants are to be built they should present solid achievable plans on how Europe intends to generate power at a reasonable cost over the next 20 to 30 years.
Depending on what direction the winds blow European energy policy also shifts too.
Why should the politicians care? They will just fire up their diesel generator at home while the rest of the population will have to bear the consequences.
If I was the Russian government I would be doing a victory jig now as renewable energy plants are no where near supplying most of the power of a country with a reasonable population(over 10 million people) for at least the next 20 years.
Yet,I personally think that many countries outside Europe will still build more nuclear power plants just for the sake of energy security. India, for example has 300,000+ tonnes of Thorium and being able to use this will make the country less dependent on foreign imports.
It also means that more and more older nuclear plants will be kept in use especially if development of newer reactors stagnate and the price of oil increases.
The worse thing I really hope this does not affect ITER.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Agent
I'd really want to hear where we are going to 'shift' our approach to as opposed to them just issuing these statements...
Germany has shut down seven reactors built before 1980. Therefore it will import more gas from Russia, so the shift in approach is from nuclear to fossil fuels. When that gets too expensive the shift will probably be towards renewables.
ITER should not be affected, given that these kind of problems would go away with fusion, however in the face of world food shortage the public still think GM is a bad idea :/
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
may shift Europe's approach to nuclear power
He's commenting a bit wider than about Germany alone, which is what I was wondering about. I find it hard to belive that enough people in Europe will move away from nuclear based on this alone, certainly if fossil fules is their main target.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
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Originally Posted by
kalniel
Germany has shut down seven reactors built before 1980. Therefore it will import more gas from Russia, so the shift in approach is from nuclear to fossil fuels. When that gets too expensive the shift will probably be towards renewables.
So I was right,the Russians will be doing a victory jig! :p
We have got plenty of coal left so are we going to use this?
It seems that our energy policy seems to pander more to potential public opinion rather than any sort of achievable long term plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
ITER should not be affected, given that these kind of problems would go away with fusion, however in the face of world food shortage the public still think GM is a bad idea :/
But its NUCLEAR(insert sarcasm)! ;)
IIRC,the Green campaigners see fusion plants in the same way as fission plants. They consider ITER an expensive "toy" and that the money should be spent on renewable energy instead.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
We have got plenty of coal left so are we going to use this?
When we can afford coal gasification plants.
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It seems that our energy policy seems to pander more to potential public opinion rather than any sort of achievable long term plan.
Welcome to our version of democracy.
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IIRC,the Green campaigners see fusion plants in the same way as fission plants. They consider ITER an expensive "toy" and that the money should be spent on renewable energy instead.
Really? I can understand the expense argument (though they counter that themselves when trying to put forward renewables over fossil), but viewing it as anything remotely similar to fission environmentally is odd.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
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Originally Posted by
kalniel
When we can afford coal gasification plants.
If no nuclear plants are to be built perhaps they should look into this then!;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
Welcome to our version of democracy.
So basically it is becoming an idiots democracy then! :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
Really? I can understand the expense argument (though they counter that themselves when trying to put forward renewables over fossil), but viewing it as anything remotely similar to fission environmentally is odd.
http://www.greenpeace.org/internatio...projectFrance/
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Agent
He's commenting a bit wider than about Germany alone, which is what I was wondering about. I find it hard to belive that enough people in Europe will move away from nuclear based on this alone, certainly if fossil fules is their main target.
Germany has elections looming in an area where the green party is strong. Be wary about accepting any commest from their Gov as anything more than electionering.
On a plus side the UK Gov energy minsiter said that the Uk will look at hoe our nuclear industry is run, the press then jumped all over this. His next comment was that the gov looks at any industry where a problem abroad has arrisen, oil and gas production was looked at aftert he US explosion, hydro gets looked at if a dam fails, etc.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
So basically it is becoming an idiots democracy then! :(
Becoming?
Far, far too late for that.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
A quick request: Please keep it on topic. As interesting as it is about nuclear energy in Europe, this thread is primarily for the events happening in Japan. Thanks.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Apparently there has been a magnitude 6 quake hit Tokyo in the last few minutes, not an aftershock but its own quake, originated on land so no tsunami threat. Looking at the tweets coming out of Japan: "Tomei highway closed, odakyu line stopped, no Tsunami warning as the \'quake was on land. This is a new \'Quake not an after shock."
Can\'t see anything official as yet, nothing on the BBC etc.
Re: 8.8 earthquake hits Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
So basically it is becoming an idiots democracy then! :(
What do you mean, becoming? :p It's been democracy by media for a long time.
:wallbash:
Starts off well.. then..