Do you believe in aliens

[chez]

I say - let's finish looking at our own rock before we spend tax payer money looking at rocks farther away.

Definitely!

[Slick]

How is it obvious there is design? I in no way understand your reasoning here, we are unique therefore aliens can't exist? It's unlikely aliens if they do exist will be a facsimilie of us, therefore we remain unique, if that feeling provides you with comfort.

ok, well I am taking the religious side but it is what I genuinely believe. I think it is obvious there is a design, look how complex everything is around us, the way everything is perfectly syncronised with each other and the way things happen. You're being very narrow minded if you can't relate to this point at all.

I don't believe in probability, I think things happen for a reason and so instead of us resulting from random occurances, we were made in a design. Although you could say aliens are part of this design, I don't believe they are.

[Kezzer]

Heh, I don't believe things happen for a reason. Like they said, everything on this planet exists to coincide with one another. Plus, didn't they prove evolution? Although it's weird how they never found human skeletons at the time of the dinosaur. So how did humans just appear? Weird :/

[fondie]

It's called the Drake Equation.

Thank you Stoo, i just don't see where the values for fi (the fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges) and fl (the fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears) could come from.

ok, well I am taking the religious side but it is what I genuinely believe. I think it is obvious there is a design, look how complex everything is around us, the way everything is perfectly syncronised with each other and the way things happen. You're being very narrow minded if you can't relate to this point at all.

I don't believe in probability, I think things happen for a reason and so instead of us resulting from random occurances, we were made in a design. Although you could say aliens are part of this design, I don't believe they are.

I resent being called narrow minded, I understand the idea of there being a 'design', I wouldn't know how to add evidence to either side of that argument, I'd say the universe was incredibly chaotic but this could have been by design. What I dislike and don't relate to at all is the arrogance that some humans possess that they are somehow so special, how they seperate themselves somehow from other 'animals', how the universe couldn't possibly contain life as intelligent as us. Even if there were a god, somehow 'it' has some special affection for us? clearly we're the centre of the universe for 'it'? ergh!

Also, out of curiosity, do you believe the outcome of tossing a coin is random? or by design?

[turkster]

Thank you Stoo, i just don't see where the values for fi (the fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges) and fl (the fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears) could come from.

Exactly, that is the problem i would have with it. With earth being the only known planet on which life has developed it is difficult to see how you could come up with a sensible probability. With enough data on suns and gas planets It is possible to work out which solar systems could support life as we know it but we cannot be sure that life as we know it is the only potential form of life in the universe.

I resent being called narrow minded, I understand the idea of there being a 'design', I wouldn't know how to add evidence to either side of that argument, I'd say the universe was incredibly chaotic but this could have been by design. What I dislike and don't relate to at all is the arrogance that some humans possess that they are somehow so special, how they seperate themselves somehow from other 'animals', how the universe couldn't possibly contain life as intelligent as us. Even if there were a god, somehow 'it' has some special affection for us? clearly we're the centre of the universe for 'it'?

Indeed. I'm afraid that a feeling of superiority is something that humans seem to have only too much of.

[Grey M@a]

Kezzer you have the same theory as myself, If God created man, who created god, if aliens created god who created the aliens etc etc To answer the question asked before "its nice and healthy to see that more than twice the members believe in aliens over god" this is why, there have been reports and sightings (made up or not) the human mind will more likely believe the UFO/alien story.

Not only are there sightings but there are links to other beings from beyond this planet in ancient Egyptian history and drawings. There are numerous references to them in the pyramids. One of the mysteries of the pyramids is that there are a number of them in succession that all have small tunnels cut out the upper tip of the structure and they all point to a certain cluster of stairs which has been concluded that there is no current sign of life or planet in this area but they do know that its far beyond what we call the universe.

I think people praying to "them" are a little over the top, but personally I don't see how people can believe in the fact that God created us but won't and don't believe that other beings could exist, is that not just a little self centred, if we were "created" (I believe in the evolution method myself) then why couldn't other races/beings be created. Who's to say they don't already exist, they are out there or not, as with anything, if the proof is there then maybe more people would believe in either one.

God/Jesus/Christianity is generally based on the bible, which in all accounts is a glorified collection of travellers stories collated into the one book. I am sorry but if that was the bible and was the say all and end all of Jesus/God then why update it and change it for the New Testament? Would this not be frowned upon by your "God" rewriting the words that were once written, this is what strengthens the point that it’s all made up. It's the same for other beings, the media has disillusioned people as to what an alien is, you know the score, big heads big black eyes, long grey bodies, so this is what people perceive to be "another life form" and alien life form can be anything at all, a plant, a micro organism, even the possibility of an advanced race like ourselves.

[Kezzer]

Heh, yeh I find it hard to figure out how everything came into existence and then i get this big void in my head trying to imagine it

Bible = book made up by humans who encountered aliens telling the rules of life
God = alien dude with big hands
Egyptians = dudes who found aliens and drew pictures of them
Roswell incident = something which was definitely covered up over 50 years ago

[Rythmic]

What irks me is spending billions on space programs to investigate rocks, while there are many scientists trying to scrape together pennies to spend investigating the remaining mysteries of our own planet - in particular, the oceans.

I say - let's finish looking at our own rock before we spend tax payer money looking at rocks farther away.

Hmmmmmmm....

So without NASA - how would you even be writing this message?

For those who haven't bothered to look at the history books, heres how the semiconductor industry started. Early on in the space race it became obvious to NASA that they couldn't build as big rockets as the russians could, so they had to cut weight - so amongst other things, they wanted to reduce the weight of the guidance systems.

The US goverment thefore spent billions on research into semiconductors - jumpstarting the whole computer industry (Apollo went up with 4 bit micro controllers...) We'd be about 30 years behind without it.

Look at the whole enviromentalism movement - the images of the Earth rising over the Moon where what got public enthusiasm behind it.

Without satelites we wouldn't have the phone system we currently enjoy, GPS, or sky (just to pick three items that everyone).

Studying the other planets helps us learn about our planet as well. Without studying the Sun - we wouldn't even know that Helium existed! (or any of the noble gases). Hell - we'd have no nuclear power either.

NASA has in recent times been made a scape goat in this way by the US goverment - if people concentrate on what NASA spends then they don't notice that they're spending 20 times as much on the military.

Don't tell me we're spending too much on Space - we're not nearly spending enough.

[Slick]

Also, out of curiosity, do you believe the outcome of tossing a coin is random? or by design?

Not specifically by design but I believe the outcome has allready been decided therefore it is not random.

[malfunction]

Slick - you argue that everything must be by design because it's so complicated and I have to admit it's the best grey area. The natural counter argument though is that it wouldn't work if it wasn't complicated - and it's only complicated due to our understanding of it / lack of. The easiest analogy is that of taking modern inventions back to medievel times... Many would surely seem like magic simply because the people of those times could not comprehend them - not only not understand how they work but have no frame of reference for them. Also - assuming you acknowledge the laws of physics, the available chemistry, etc then there's only so many ways in which something could work - by 'design' or by evolution / chance... Which is the whole point - slow random changes but the most successful become dominant in the species, etc. Though again you could argue that the process of evolution itself is a part of the design...

[Rythmic]

In that case do you also believe that we have free will - or have all our decisions also been decided?

(Just curious - I find it a really interesting, but slightly distubing question)

[malfunction]

Back on topic though... Do I believe that there's other life out there - yes - seems probable. Do I believe in little green men? (Or grey ones)... Nope.

[malfunction]

Aliens being creatures not from this planet. Yes, theres too many stars for there not to be.

Aliens visiting us from other worlds in glowing blobs which hover in the sky. No, anything that can invent a vehicle capable of travelling accross the galaxy should be able to make it without flashing lights on it.

Ben

Well maybe that's the point... MAYBE the super powerful, advanced alien races have decided not to bother us until we start behaving... But even super powerful advanced alien races have the equivalent of chav's running around in juiced up Novas... Maybe the Zargon-Tech R488 Intergalatic vehicle looks quite nice in stock trim but those tasteless b******* just can't stop modding it!

[Slick]

What I dislike and don't relate to at all is the arrogance that some humans possess that they are somehow so special, how they seperate themselves somehow from other 'animals', how the universe couldn't possibly contain life as intelligent as us. Even if there were a god, somehow 'it' has some special affection for us? clearly we're the centre of the universe for 'it'? ergh!

ok well imagine we do have a design. Everything we have been given has a purpose and add's something to the design. I do not believe alien's do this and serve a purpose to us. I also wouldn't see the point in alien's having a seperate design as why would there need to be another one?

In that case do you also believe that we have free will - or have all our decisions also been decided?

I believe all our decisions have been decided. That does not mean that we didn't make the decisions in the first place. Either it is possible to see which decision will be made or we have allready made them and we are just living through them in a linear timeline. This would explain things like very strong preminitions I have experienced and then watched them happen.

[spazman]

What do you mean by design? DNA? Also, how the hell have all our decisions been made for us that makes very little sence. Premenitions are you subconsios taking in your surroundings and comparing it to every other situation youve had that is simmilar, if there is any difference, your subconcius 'tells' you somehow. Its on one of those how the mind works programs with that bloke with the tash and the glasses. There is absolutley no way that we dont have free will.

edit: Unless your chinese and have the state decide for you.

[Slick]

What do you mean by design?

God has designed this planet to be how it is

how the hell have all our decisions been made for us that makes very little sence. Premenitions are you subconsios taking in your surroundings and comparing it to every other situation youve had that is simmilar, if there is any difference, your subconcius 'tells' you somehow. Its on one of those how the mind works programs with that bloke with the tash and the glasses. There is absolutley no way that we dont have free will.

I'm not saying we don't have free will, read through my post again. If we didn't have free will there would be no point in us being here. That's BS about preminitions, you've obviously never had a proper one yourself.