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Thread: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

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    Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    The Liberal Democrats are calling for students to face paying council tax for the first time, Whitehall documents reveal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9125...#disqus_thread

    Seems like they dont want an educated workforce these days, they just keep attacking students.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Actually I think if you would like the privilage of a higher education, you shouldn't be given all sorts of freebies and extra bonuses - You will reap the rewards at the end, so in the mean time, why shouldn't you pay taxes (perhaps at a reduced rate), and why shouldn't the students adequately fund the universities that are trying to educate them? A University is a business, not a charity. The same goes for the rest of the working tax payers - I can't afford a biased tax rate because students and various others don't / won't pay taxes...... my 2p.
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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    A University is a business, not a charity.
    Technically,universities are charities.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Well, LibDems aren't actually saying that, they are saying that it should be up to Local Authorities whether students pay Council Tax or not. However there is the implication that by giving them such power, they'll use it, and as a result the LibDems have indirectly sponsored the decision.

    One question though, where is the money to pay Council Tax going to come from? Student Loans I'd hazard a guess at......which comes from the government, funded by taxes. Taxes have to go up to pay for the increased need for subsidised borrowing presumably, and result in businesses & individuals charging more for their services.....Inflationary circle much?

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Technically,universities are charities.
    My dad is a head lecturer at University of Gloucestershire - He is constantly going on about how the board of directors seem to forget that it is a business. On what grounds would it be a charity?...
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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    Actually I think if you would like the privilage of a higher education, you shouldn't be given all sorts of freebies and extra bonuses
    Woo! Down with "Student Discounts" and up with "Taxpayer Discounts"!!

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by BobF64 View Post
    Woo! Down with "Student Discounts" and up with "Taxpayer Discounts"!!
    Quite - Where's my 5% off card... Sickens me that at work I am allowed to give Students 5% off virtually no questions asked but I have to seek "special permission" to give any one else discount - including members of the armed forces and other crucial services.
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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    My dad is a head lecturer at University of Gloucestershire - He is constantly going on about how the board of directors seem to forget that it is a business. On what grounds would it be a charity?...
    So?? I know plenty of people who work at them too and certainly know a few things about how department and university funding operates!

    A lot of universities have charity status.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    Actually I think if you would like the privilage of a higher education, you shouldn't be given all sorts of freebies and extra bonuses - You will reap the rewards at the end, so in the mean time, why shouldn't you pay taxes (perhaps at a reduced rate), and why shouldn't the students adequately fund the universities that are trying to educate them? A University is a business, not a charity. The same goes for the rest of the working tax payers - I can't afford a biased tax rate because students and various others don't / won't pay taxes...... my 2p.
    Where do you think students get the money from? If they want to charge me for council tax, then fine. All I need is an equivalent grant from the government so that I can still afford to go.

    Either way you're paying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    Quite - Where's my 5% off card... Sickens me that at work I am allowed to give Students 5% off virtually no questions asked but I have to seek "special permission" to give any one else discount - including members of the armed forces and other crucial services.
    And that's hardly a government move. It's a clever business move - students are typically hard up, and typically very valuable customers in the future because they'll be the earners of the future. Get their custom now, keep them coming, and whilst they get a discount now, in a few years time you'll be making a fortune out of them.

    It's not about rewarding people for doing particular jobs, such as the armed forces, it's about making profit.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Given that this would make the window of people who can actually afford to go to higher education even smaller and focussed on the weathy, i dont see this as a very liberal perspective.

    And all those who whine about students getting discounts... are you serious? Get a grip.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    And all those who whine about students getting discounts... are you serious? Get a grip.
    Don't be a pussy - just post it straight at me please Biscuit.

    And honestly, Why should anyone expect hand outs from the government for their education? Anything past secondary school is extremely valuable for the individual and will benefit them in the long run, but why don't they put in a year or two of hard graft at the lower end of the employment spectrum to help them afford it, rather than building up the ridiculous amount of credit owed from such a young age....
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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    Don't be a pussy - just post it straight at me please Biscuit.

    And honestly, Why should anyone expect hand outs from the government for their education? Anything past secondary school is extremely valuable for the individual and will benefit them in the long run, but why don't they put in a year or two of hard graft at the lower end of the employment spectrum to help them afford it, rather than building up the ridiculous amount of credit owed from such a young age....
    I will pump far more into this damn tax system then anyone else my age! I had the full student loan, and will be paying back the £28k for the next 25 years. It ISN'T a free ride and whilst everyone seems to moan on about us students (and ex) getting it easy and being treated special you would pipe down very quickly if you saw the net gain I will give to this economy over my lifetime compared to my worth had I just plugged away at ''hard graft'' jobs for a few years before I made a start.


    Most university students will be a massive benefit to this economy, at a real short term cost to the wider economy/society. It is such a short sighted view your taking it is unreal.

    edit: toned it down a bit!

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    Don't be a pussy - just post it straight at me please Biscuit.

    And honestly, Why should anyone expect hand outs from the government for their education? Anything past secondary school is extremely valuable for the individual and will benefit them in the long run, but why don't they put in a year or two of hard graft at the lower end of the employment spectrum to help them afford it, rather than building up the ridiculous amount of credit owed from such a young age....
    Your moaning that students get 10% off here and there and im the pussy?
    There are just no words to describe how utterly narrow minded and ridiculous that point of view is... but il try

    1. As jim pointed out, its actually good business to encourage a large demographic into your store, even with a slightly reduced profit.
    2. Have you ever actually tried living off ~£3-4k when you have to pay rent and bills? It aint easy, a lot of people need to get part time jobs that fit around their study which means you will often spend uo to 25 hours a week in university lectures, 10-20 hours a week studying at home or in the library (if you want to get a grade thats worth anything) and 10-20 hours a week working. That discount might seem ludicrous to you but in my case it made it actually affordable to buy things like new underwear and socks when they inevitably wear out.
    3. What difference does it actually make to the rest of the public that students get a mildly preferential treatment in a selection of stores in primarily student populated areas? None, absolutely none
    4. What hand outs? We get loans which we have to pay back, quite sizable ones with unusually high levels of interest given the circumstance. Im doing alright and in some cases the amount the government take off me in tax, added to the amount im giving back to the student loans company and my council tax is more than a lot of my 'hard grafting' friends take home in a month. I will probably still be paying my loan back when my children (which i dont even have yet) are deciding if they want to go... wait no... correction, i will have the horrible decision of deciding for them because its so damn expensive it wont be the decision of the child any more.
    5. Grafting in early years is another approach to getting into employment, but what if you want to be a doctor? or a physicist? or a vet? or a teacher? or an engineer? You have to study at higher levels of education and even then, in most cases, you have be pretty good at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andehh View Post
    Trust me mate, i will pump far more into this damn tax system then anyone else my age! I had the full student loan, and will be paying back the £28k for the next 25 years. It ISN'T a free ride and whilst everyone seems to bitch & moan on about us students (and ex) getting it easy and being treated special you would pipe down very quickly if you saw the net gain I will give to this economy over my lifetime compared to my worth had I just plugged away at ''hard graft'' jobs for a few years before I made a start.


    Most university students will be a massive benefit to this economy, at a real short term cost to the wider economy/society. It is such a short sighted view your taking it is unreal.
    Exactly
    Last edited by Biscuit; 06-03-2012 at 09:31 PM.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    if you would like the privilage of a higher education, you shouldn't be given all sorts of freebies and extra bonuses - You will reap the rewards at the end
    That's a fair point, but the country as a whole also benefits, so long as the subjects are valuable ...

    Personally I would divide subjects into three categories :-

    High Value. These should be subsidised and include the major vocational subjects like engineering, science, maths, law, architecture, the medical disciplines, etc.

    Standard Value. These should be part subsidised as ALL degrees currently are. This includes the less obviously useful subjects like history, music, geography, languages, PPE, media studies, etc.

    Private Degrees. These should be fully self funded and include purely self interest subjects such as history of art, dance, classics, philosophy, etc.


    We should be encouraging subjects that will sustain our nations wealth and force the idle rich to pay for their 3 years of messing about with "toy" subjects.

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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunjiweb View Post
    Don't be a pussy - just post it straight at me please Biscuit.

    And honestly, Why should anyone expect hand outs from the government for their education? Anything past secondary school is extremely valuable for the individual and will benefit them in the long run, but why don't they put in a year or two of hard graft at the lower end of the employment spectrum to help them afford it, rather than building up the ridiculous amount of credit owed from such a young age....
    Some people do...

    Some people take time out to get a job and work a menial job for 2 years to build up some money... Commuting an hour a day in order to have a job...
    Then when they get to uni, as well as having uni work to do, they hold down a job... Or multiple jobs..
    In order to pay the bills, sure, student finance pays the rent but there's plenty of other things to cover.
    Not only do some people have 15+ hours of lectures to attend, but they also have work interspaced with that, giving them 9-7 days in some cases. On top of that, add in additional work at weekends to pull in some more cash, and being turned away from work opportunities because you don't have anough time in the day to cover them. Then add in the time needed to juggle 6 assignments at a time and needing to split your time between all of them in order to get them in on time and still maintain >90%

    I pay tax on my work because I have a job to go to when i'm out of term time as well as in term time.. Because that's what the system imposes. I don't moan. I get on with it like everyone else.
    I don't bitch and moan when my car needs repairing and i'm left to foot a £2000 bill or when insurance comes round the corner again. I get on with it.

    Sure some students live off money from their parents. But others try their utmost to do everything on their own, to not accept help whenever it is offered, only when it is needed. Sure some students drink their life away at the pub and just fail their degree, and you know what? That's their choice, if that's the person that they want to be, building up debt for no reason, then so be it...

    I juggle everything and still manage to maintain a somewhat healthy social life. Sure I haven't been 'out' more than three times this year, and I haven't gone anywhere with my girlfriend, but at the end of the day, it's just tough luck, neither of us can afford it, so we just spend time together when we get chance when neither of us are working. Even if that means she has to come see me while i'm in networking labs doing EIGRP/RIP practicals or in the microprocessor labs designing circuit boards or she's doing some screen printing, or just at home while i'm writing code or she's doing artwork...

    Some people juggle more than others think in order to survive and better themselves without making a fuss about it... And you know why? Because that's life..
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    Re: Students should face paying council tax, Lib Dems say

    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    Some people do...

    Some people take time out to get a job and work a menial job for 2 years to build up some money... Commuting an hour a day in order to have a job...
    Then when they get to uni, as well as having uni work to do, they hold down a job... Or multiple jobs..
    In order to pay the bills, sure, student finance pays the rent but there's plenty of other things to cover.
    Not only do some people have 15+ hours of lectures to attend, but they also have work interspaced with that, giving them 9-7 days in some cases. On top of that, add in additional work at weekends to pull in some more cash, and being turned away from work opportunities because you don't have anough time in the day to cover them. Then add in the time needed to juggle 6 assignments at a time and needing to split your time between all of them in order to get them in on time and still maintain >90%

    I pay tax on my work because I have a job to go to when i'm out of term time as well as in term time.. Because that's what the system imposes. I don't moan. I get on with it like everyone else.
    I don't bitch and moan when my car needs repairing and i'm left to foot a £2000 bill or when insurance comes round the corner again. I get on with it.

    Sure some students live off money from their parents. But others try their utmost to do everything on their own, to not accept help whenever it is offered, only when it is needed. Sure some students drink their life away at the pub and just fail their degree, and you know what? That's their choice, if that's the person that they want to be, building up debt for no reason, then so be it...

    I juggle everything and still manage to maintain a somewhat healthy social life. Sure I haven't been 'out' more than three times this year, and I haven't gone anywhere with my girlfriend, but at the end of the day, it's just tough luck, neither of us can afford it, so we just spend time together when we get chance when neither of us are working. Even if that means she has to come see me while i'm in networking labs doing EIGRP/RIP practicals or in the microprocessor labs designing circuit boards or she's doing some screen printing, or just at home while i'm writing code or she's doing artwork...

    Some people juggle more than others think in order to survive and better themselves without making a fuss about it... And you know why? Because that's life..
    Hat off to you sir

  23. Received thanks from:

    Hicks12 (07-03-2012)

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