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Thread: should disabled students be means tested ?

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    I didn't even know I had a problem till I was 21. I was working full time when I found out, and I got the sack for it.

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    I think the whole point here is about giving money to help people who have enough money in the first place. That people should be helped - whatever their need - is already assumed. That fact, however, only adds weight to the problem of the OP. If it is right that we should help those who need it, and if our resources are limited, then we should do our utmost to ensure the money goes where it is needed is not wasted on people who simply want someone else to pick up their tab.

    Perhaps radical, but maybe a penalty laid upon those who do abuse the system would go some way to encourage people to respect it and others. ?
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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    Perhaps radical, but maybe a penalty laid upon those who do abuse the system would go some way to encourage people to respect it and others. ?
    Wrong way round IMO, fix the system - the rest will sort itself out.
    Cheers, David



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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    I think the whole point here is about giving money to help people who have enough money in the first place.
    One of the problems with means testing is it develops resentment for paying tax. High earners often complain that they wouldn't be eligible for <some benefit> (e.g. child benefit), despite the fact that they pay considerably more than all those that are eligible. They can't bring themselves to campaign for to cuts to (say) disability allowances (that they wouldn't get, even if they were disabled), so they campaign for tax cuts instead. This develops and perpetuates a culture of resentment. Everyone is under the impression that they are carrying loads of other scroungers. Then if the opportunity presents itself, the porsche/boat owners seize everything they can.

    If there are 10 high earners, they will all pay a lot of tax. Only one (or less) will be making claims for a disabled child.
    If you don't give to that one, then you can be sure that all 10 will resent paying into the insurance scheme (income tax) that wont pay out to them if they ever need to make a claim. They will do everything they can to contribute as little as they can so that nobody can claim.

    To point out that the man who received the laptop didn't own a house, a boat or a porsche (his father did), is another problem. If he isn't entitled then he will harbour resentment, even though his son is eligible.

    Tax the rich and help the disabled. There will be a bit of a merry go round for the few rich with disabled children, but at least they will see what their taxes are for.

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    Perhaps radical, but maybe a penalty laid upon those who do abuse the system would go some way to encourage people to respect it and others. ?
    You mean exactly like the DWP does already?

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    I didn't even know I had a problem till I was 21. I was working full time when I found out, and I got the sack for it.
    sorry to hear that well i guess that company is covered by the "tosspot" rule as well then
    A place where i worked many years ago had a lad who covered up that he was dyslexic until the main boss found out and at that point was going to sack him.
    Luckily i was in a position to stop it as i was his line manager and worked with him, and offered to extend his employment for 6 months and i would help and assist him to a point he could do the job properly ( i had guessed it before the chat but was waitng to broach it with the lad),and asked and told the boss if i get it wrong he could sack him and me after the 6 months.
    As it was i helped to a point of putting him through a college course in english and reading which he passed, and the boss eat his words, and we worked for the company for 5 years after.
    Also as lad was roughly same age as me, became good mates and was best man at his wedding so all ended well.
    I hate bosses who have crap shoot attitudes

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucio View Post
    To start with, it's worth taking a little time to read this article, to remind yourself that sometimes you can't take the effects of a disability at face value.

    Another similar point to the above is that is anyone really fit to judge the shape of another person's life in a few minutes of contact?

    Anyhow, the above point aside we can always find examples where the system is broken, it's a natural part of amy set of rules is that some people will find the necessary loopholes in them and exploit them. The question becomes whether you can actually close the loopholes without screwing over the people who genuinely need help.
    cheers Lucio
    Very interesting article to read, some points we all take for granted.

    I guess it's a shame that as human beings we sometimes mis judge or trample on others to get what we think we deserve without a thought for others, i guess that may improve as we continue to evolve as a species.
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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Having not read anything apart from the OP I'd like to share this story: a guy who I'm at college with frequently mentions the fact that his school was the most expensive in britain ("I went to quite a nice private school actually...") and that he has been skiing in 3 continents. He got a free macbook pro from the government because he's dyslexic. It pisses me off because he is clearly absolutely loaded (both parents are bankers) and he's such a massive nonce. That said I have another friend who (quite honestly) says that he's not rich, his parents are and that he is going to pay them everything back. Means testing is deeply flawed since it also doesn't take into account how many children the parents are supporting.
    Last edited by nibbler; 24-03-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    To me it is irrelevant whether the person comes from a wealthy family. Either dyslexia is a disability that justifies handing out free computers, or it isn't. If it is, then we ought to give it to everyone with said disability for the same reason that everyone is eligible for treatment under the NHS.

    If you want to give a free computer to every household unable to afford one, then do it under another scheme. At least it would be clear that the purpose is to help the financially unprivileged.

    Also, I do not like people who brags either, but I do not think that it should affect whether someone get certain welfare. Or we will have to start test everyone to see if they are subjectively "nice" people (beyond law abiding people).
    Last edited by TooNice; 24-03-2012 at 09:52 PM.

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackobyte View Post
    sorry to hear that well i guess that company is covered by the "tosspot" rule as well then
    A place where i worked many years ago had a lad who covered up that he was dyslexic until the main boss found out and at that point was going to sack him.
    Luckily i was in a position to stop it as i was his line manager and worked with him, and offered to extend his employment for 6 months and i would help and assist him to a point he could do the job properly ( i had guessed it before the chat but was waitng to broach it with the lad),and asked and told the boss if i get it wrong he could sack him and me after the 6 months.
    As it was i helped to a point of putting him through a college course in english and reading which he passed, and the boss eat his words, and we worked for the company for 5 years after.
    Also as lad was roughly same age as me, became good mates and was best man at his wedding so all ended well.
    I hate bosses who have crap shoot attitudes
    as dyslexia is a registered disability, if the employer dismissed someone for it, he could have faced penalties in a tribunal. that's if it was after 1995 at least (although it was been recognised since 1970)

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    as dyslexia is a registered disability, if the employer dismissed someone for it, he could have faced penalties in a tribunal. that's if it was after 1995 at least (although it was been recognised since 1970)
    It was late 80's and employer was a big player at time, as i was young didn't know to much about legal bits but felt it was right to stand up against boss at the time.
    Glad they brought in legislation to protect/help people now.

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nibbler View Post
    Having not read anything apart from the OP I'd like to share this story: a guy who I'm at college with frequently mentions the fact that his school was the most expensive in britain ("I went to quite a nice private school actually...") and that he has been skiing in 3 continents. He got a free macbook pro from the government because he's dyslexic. It pisses me off because he is clearly absolutely loaded (both parents are bankers) and he's such a massive nonce. That said I have another friend who (quite honestly) says that he's not rich, his parents are and that he is going to pay them everything back. Means testing is deeply flawed since it also doesn't take into account how many children the parents are supporting.
    Surely the issue there is that he's a massive nonce!

    Also the idea that giving someone a MBP will help them overcome dislexia, is erm, flawed.

    For instance if you have any maths or engineering, then I'm sorry but I'd only you buy you the very unfashionable kind of TabletPC, one running OneNote with a qwerty and a wacom....
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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Surely the issue there is that he's a massive nonce!

    Also the idea that giving someone a MBP will help them overcome dislexia, is erm, flawed.

    For instance if you have any maths or engineering, then I'm sorry but I'd only you buy you the very unfashionable kind of TabletPC, one running OneNote with a qwerty and a wacom....
    apparently there is some special software that can help, and the idea is that they offer vouchers to people to help them buy a computer. the vouchers are up to a specific value which won't let you buy anything from apple, but you can add the rest to it yourself. defeating the purpose of the scheme if you are adding as much money as a new pc would cost in the first place

    if i had the chance of £500 and dyslexia or not having dyslexia, i know what i'd prefer though. apparently it can affect people in a number of ways, not just reading. a kid i know also doesn't like speaking on the phone due to it, and it affects a number of aspects of communication including face to face as they don't feel generally overall confident in communicating with people, which can of course hold someone back a great deal

    it's just another one of these things where there is a lot more about it than most would realise, but the scheme does seem to have it's flaws when someone with a perfectly good computer can get another one by filling in a form

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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    At what point does the fact a parent has money cease to be part of the equation?

    Do we also then say if a parent has the means they should pay for their child's education or that they should pay for their child's health care?

    As higher earning members of society are these people not paying within their taxes and national insurances for special equipment should their child need it, are they not paying greater amounts of money already to enable others who are less able to have the same equipment provided for those on a lesser income.

    To qualify as having a 'disability' they are already tested. there is a whole set of criteria to meet to be classed as disabled.

    No one individual I have ever met with a disability has asked to be disabled it just is how they are why then do we ask people to pay to get a little better out of their lives.

    Do we then start 'means' testing for other things do the older people amongst us get means tested for free bus-fares?.........do the people who have life threatening illnesses get means tested for their ability to pay for their own treatment and medication?


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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaidd59 View Post
    At what point does the fact a parent has money cease to be part of the equation?

    Do we also then say if a parent has the means they should pay for their child's education or that they should pay for their child's health care?

    As higher earning members of society are these people not paying within their taxes and national insurances for special equipment should their child need it, are they not paying greater amounts of money already to enable others who are less able to have the same equipment provided for those on a lesser income.

    To qualify as having a 'disability' they are already tested. there is a whole set of criteria to meet to be classed as disabled.

    No one individual I have ever met with a disability has asked to be disabled it just is how they are why then do we ask people to pay to get a little better out of their lives.

    Do we then start 'means' testing for other things do the older people amongst us get means tested for free bus-fares?.........do the people who have life threatening illnesses get means tested for their ability to pay for their own treatment and medication?

    Clearly that's very different. It's more the fact that it's a pointlessly expensive MBP as previously pointed out...
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    Re: should disabled students be means tested ?

    to add to Blaidd59 post, none of my parents have taken a free bus pass as they do not need it and would rather use the money they have than take something they don't need.

    I guess I have been bought up not to take what i don't need.

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