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Thread: Hexus.Legal/Union

  1. #17
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    Re: Hexus.Legal/Union

    Quote Originally Posted by GoNz0 View Post
    ....

    can they really do this ?
    Don't take my answer as gospel, but I'd say .... yes, probably.

    As I understand it, the identity of the person liable for fines is usually determined primarily by the person to whom the vehicle is registered. If you are driving a vehicle registered to the employer, then they'd be liable, and you wouldn't really have any grounds to appeal.

    But, you're the driver.

    So, they get either the fine, or the cost, hassle and time of running the appeal.

    So I'd say the message they are sending is do not get fined. Don't do things that put them in that situation in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoNz0 View Post
    .....

    basically they are saying that you can no longer contest a fine and they are just going to pay it ?
    There is a potential problem in there, in that genuine mistakes do happen .... and so do problems due to car number plate cloning. But, presumably, if a fine was levied by an authority two hundred miles from where you were known the be operating, the company could and would challenge that.

    Perhaps the answer is that if you genuinely object, they will fight it. And if they lose, they'll pass the increased cost of the higher penalty that will result from a failure of prompt payment, and their legal costs, onto you.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoNz0 View Post
    ....

    apart from speeding tickets having by law to be sent direct to the driver how can they even threaten this ?
    Every contract of employment I've ever had, where a company vehicle was involved, has had this provision. Even where the provision is generous, including one that paid ALL petrol costs, personal and business, and even allowed up to three other members of the family to be authorised to use the car, even for their personal business (and I haven't seen a set of provisions that generous for a very long time) they still passed on any fines, penalties, etc.

    at least once per day, even today i had little choice in being 2 foot onto double yellows but had little choice other than drive round and round in the hope of getting close to lug a great box of pc equipment to the student digs.
    But you do have a choice. You drive round until you find a spot, or you lug the gear that much further.

    That's the point of parking restrictions. They don't just apply to people for whom it isn't inconvenient or awkward, or apply to everybody except when it's inconvenient. They apply to all of us, period. As for the 2-foot thing, well, they have to ... literally .... draw the line somewhere. If the space isn't big enough, either don't park there or take a risk and pay the fine if you get caught.

    My attitude has always been that I'm NOT prepared to pay parking fines, much less get speeding tickets, by breaking the law as part of the job. So, if I'm on a job where it's a 10 hour job on-site and the parking is two hours, every hour and fifty minutes I go and add more parking money to the meter, or if need be, move the car. And that takes as long as it takes. If it slows the job, so be it. If it adds to my overtime claim, so much the better.

    And I pointed that out to one employer .... that it might be cheaper for them to pay the fine than the extra time costs, and the reply was very pointed ..... the extra overtime is a legitimate part of doing the job, and we'll pay it. Fines aren't, and we won't. If you get fined, you pay them, so don't get them.

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    Re: Hexus.Legal/Union

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    ....

    Parking is usually a civil matter, hence the term 'penalty' and does not result in a criminal record, it is an administrative matter, which I guess is why the company used to pay.....
    It can be criminal or civil, though even the former isn't a reportable offence resulting in a criminal record.

    There are basically three situations :-

    1) Criminal. Police are usually issuing the ticket and you'll end up in Magistrates Court if you don't pay it.

    2) Council tickets. Probably still occurred on public roads but in an area or way that the council are the responsible authority. If you don't pay, a process is followed that offers an appeal opportunity to the authority, and if they refuse it, to an independent tribunal. But ultimately, it could result in the debt (for that is what it is) being registered with a court as if it were a CCJ, and bailiffs being sent in. Not private debt collectors, but court-appointed bailiffs, who tend to be more professional, but also with greater powers.

    3) Private charges. Purely a civil matter which, if you don't pay, could result in a court case over trespass. There is no appeals process as such, but the debt is unenforceable unless the person/company alleging trespass takes it to court .... and wins. This example could be over-staying in a pay car park, or parking on private land (like a pub) when you aren't using that company and doing so is a condition of parking there.

    I wouldn' like to hazard a guess as to which of these is "usual" and which isn't, but it remains that parking can be but might not be a criminal matter. It all depends on circumstances, which usually involves where you park. On public roads, it could be police (criminal) or council (civil). On private property, it's civil.

    All "as I understand it", of course.

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    Re: Hexus.Legal/Union

    i'll echo much/most/all of what saracen has said

    many employers just don't have the time and resources to challenge these fines, and why should they if they are caused by their employees. the cost of fighting a £20 parking fine probably isn't worth it. and why should the employer pay the employee whilst challenging the fine. thus they draw up driving procedures that make employees responsible for the fines, the employer pays the fine and deducts from wages, but the procedure may also make clear that getting a fine could be subject to disciplinary action

    it's been a while since i last drew up such a procedure, but after doing so i don't recall getting a single parking ticket

    drivers do have options, they can park in permitted areas. if this causes other issues such as carrying heavy goods long distances, then those should be addressed separately, such as trollies being provided

    a good few years ago now, i had to attend court about 3 or 4 times on behalf of my employer as an ex director had run up fines of literally thousands of pounds for leaving his merc parked anywhere. i think we got fines of about £1300 to £600 each time. i learned from the first experience that rather than make excuses, it was better to explain what happened, apologies and accept the blame, and the fines were reduced each time. from then onwards any driving policies i've created have been very clear that the employer pays the fine and deducts from the drivers pay, which is a legal deduction as it's agreed in writing with the employee

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