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Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I can see this going really well for a Korean company with a US jury:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/...-goes-to-jury/
Quote:
Originally Posted by from article
Samsung argued that lawsuits haven’t emerged from competitors following the market trend sent by the leader, citing the emergence of full featured QWERTY phones on the market when Blackberry was the smartphone hegemon.
“Rather than compete in the marketplace, Apple is seeking a competitive edge through the courtroom,” said Samsung’s lead lawyer Charles Verhoeven. “It’s seeking to block its biggest and most serious competitor from even attending the game.”
Mr. Verhoeven warned jurors that the outcome of this case “could change the way competition works in this country” if Apple wins.
During Apple’s closing rebuttal, the company’s lawyers mocked and refuted Mr. Veroeven’s closing statements.
“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”
Bill Lee, Apple second lawyer who handed some witness testimony and cross examination concluded Apple’s rebuttal with one final address to the jury that was largely directed at Apple.
“Make your own designs, make your own phones, and compete on your own innovations.”
Re-affirm how great the broken US patent system is and Apple making their own phones with Samsung technology!! :lol:
I like how Apple is stoking up national sentiment by emphasising "American" to the jury and the economic benefits to America too.
I expect Apple to win,just because Samsung is Korean and the people in the jury probably would have no real intention of helping out a non-US company. So basically a screwed up patent system which helps US companies and a court system which helps them out too.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Yeah, it's ok for Apple to rip off Sony's designs because Sony is Japanese.
USA! USA! USA!
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Lol these guys will be after one another and keep ripping each other off and then filing law suits against each other to get a whole bunch of dough lol
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Re-affirm how great the broken US patent system is and Apple making their own phones with Samsung technology!! :lol:
Which is why when Apple offered an IP licencing deal to Samsung back in 2010 (before thinking about taking legal action) they had special provisions in there to reflect the fact that Samsung is a strategic supplier to Apple. Offering reduced royalty rates and a 20% discount overall if Samsung was willing to cross-licence patents in return.
This was a discounted version of the IP deal they offered to Microsoft, who took them up on the offer to licence Apple patents to use in the MS Surface products.
Really these two devices look similar ? Nooo....
http://www.careace.net/wp-content/up...axy-s-head.jpg
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Cant be long now until the USA closes its borders and collectively sits around going "the precious is ours!".
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barakka
Which is why when Apple offered an IP licencing deal to Samsung back in 2010 (before thinking about taking legal action) they had special provisions in there to reflect the fact that Samsung is a strategic supplier to Apple. Offering reduced royalty rates and a 20% discount overall if Samsung was willing to cross-licence patents in return.
This was a discounted version of the IP deal they offered to Microsoft, who took them up on the offer to licence Apple patents to use in the MS Surface products.
Really these two devices look similar ? Nooo....
http://www.careace.net/wp-content/up...axy-s-head.jpg
Weren't the terms offered ridiculously geared in Apple's favour? Did I imagine they wanted $30 a handset from them? And no, they don't look the same, similar, but not the same. In the same way as 2 modern cars will look similar, or every portable tape player looked similar to the Walkman, but not the same... Form follows function with phones...
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
This has really gotten out of hand, i do wonder when apple will just STFU and stop worrying about its competitors...
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
essentially Apple are saying Samsung copied because Samsung are selling a crap load :), market competition stifling at its finest. Apple think that the device is a copy because it is square with smooth corners and has an app launcher... news flash there have been app launchers for many many years and the device design is simply the best for mobile phones, its funny how Apple said how the Nokia lumia looks nothing like Apple and is good but it does... its a phone with pointy corners thats the only difference and of course its Windows OS which really is totally different.
You cant own an image that is standard, I just dont understand how Apple can think that if you have an icon with a phone then its copying but its not as im pretty sure everyone uses those icons and samsung certainly has been using them longer than Apple!.
Btw that image comparison has been cropped, again another idiotic move by Apple to cheat and lie as they will never look the same when they are much larger!. I think Samsungs lawyers had the best comment in the fact that apple are after billions and spent loads on the trial etc on the basis that Samsung have copied and confused the customer so they end up with a samsung (apparently inferior) rather than an iPhone, but they have done no surveys... they have just made silly charts and 'witnesses' of the development team which of course would be lieing through their teeth to say they are stealing their idea. You would have thought Apple would have 1000000s of samples asking if people had got a samsung by mistake, the result probably would be <1% as it clearly states samsung on the front of the device and all other the boxes lol.
And another thing, Apple were talking crap about how Samsung didnt put any of their executives on the stand and that Apple were being honest by putting top dogs on, but I dont understand the point in that as the executives have no idea whats going on specifically, they manage the overall they wouldnt know when X Y Z were in development passed phase A B C. And the underoath bit is rather silly as its like saying just because no one found the body of someone you murdered makes you not a murderer but only until you're caught so basically you could lie through your teeth 'underoath' but until you're found out you will never know if its true or not.
One final thing, it certainly shouldnt be allowed in the US as its home ground, biased! We know the iPhone is most popular there, they should have put it in a neutralish country like the UK... oh wait Apple would back down then as they know they wouldnt get home advantage and lose a crap ton.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smudger
Weren't the terms offered ridiculously geared in Apple's favour? Did I imagine they wanted $30 a handset from them? And no, they don't look the same, similar, but not the same. In the same way as 2 modern cars will look similar, or every portable tape player looked similar to the Walkman, but not the same... Form follows function with phones...
Yes they were and I agree, smartphones ended up being similar out of necessity for the most part. I love the revolution that Apple spearheaded but in their terms it's more or less impossible to build a smartphone without treading on their toes.
The picture is an amusing comparison because really there's a lot of differences there from hardware asthetics to the UI displayed (ignoring the completely obvious 'grid' concept which Apple didn't pioneer).
Sad thing is this is all just business - this is how it works in our World thesedays and that's why Apple and Samsung are at the same time working together on projects outside the courtroom. Crazy.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I wonder if the jury will be selected based on which mobile phone products they have
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
In any other case that would be an amusing prospect but in this one I think you are right.
Only winner will be the lawyers and a certain Canadian firm that took this course of action isn't doing too well right now.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hicks12
One final thing, it certainly shouldnt be allowed in the US as its home ground, biased! We know the iPhone is most popular there, they should have put it in a neutralish country like the UK... oh wait Apple would back down then as they know they wouldnt get home advantage and lose a crap ton.
iPhone is most popular there? I'd say that -subjectively- the iPhone is very popular in most countries, but going by sales (since I can't think of a more objective measurement), Samsung lead even in the US: http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events...r_Market_Share
Why should a US patent case be held anywhere in the US? Patents are only valid in the country it is granted, so it makes sense for legal battles in said country (the specifics of the laws are probably different too). Are you sure you aren't calling the UK "neutral" because Apple has already lost it's case here (pending appeal), and hold the view that it is the "right" verdict? By the way, Apple and Samsung are (were) also duking it out in South Korea (which lead to a split decision: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875), Australia and more (at least 10 countries).
Frankly speaking, I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome contains some bias. But not because it's the US (looking at US based forums, there no fewer anti-Apple voices to be heard). The problem is that online commenter seem to lean strongly on one side or the other, and it's making me wonder if we really get a jury who haven't made up their mind before the trial has started.
Some are implying that US court / jury will be biased toward an US company (possible but unprovable). But jurors are consumers, and I would argue that they can be just as biased toward Samsung because they a vested interest in the competition (also possible, but just as unprovable). Truth is, regardless of the outcome, accusations will fly.
BTW, I am hardly pro-Apple in this case. I would also hate to be in the jury. Perhaps evidence would sway me one way, but on the outset, it just seems to me like a case of subjectively deciding where to draw the line. I reckon that it is likely, given the number of patents involved, that some claims are frivolous while others have merits on both sides so I am dealing with shades of grey and I am asked to draw the line in it. Trying to be fair in this situation must royally suck.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
No no you're probably right, of course it makes sense to have it in the US for specific US patents but I thought it was more about the massing of so many so they eventually decided to take a massive one time bout over it? Which in that case should have been done in a more neutral place, when I mean neutral I dont simply mean where they have won or lost I just mean a place that doesnt use the broken US patent system :D.
Personally think its just got out of hand, it really annoys me seeing it in the press etc that instead of just being a patent here or there its Apple patenting stuff that is blatantly already been done, its not as if they are doing it to get damages they are just trying to stop Samsung selling at all.
And I must be out of date with the sales of phones in the U.S so appreciate that link as you rightly point out it is samsung now but I still standby that US is more Apple loving than normal but then again what can be considered 'normal' now adays, to me i find it crazy to be waiting outside any store for days for a silly bit of tech or a game but it seems to be the norm now, I must be crazy :D.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
OTH,the Apple lawyers are using "nationalist" and "economic" sentiment though:
“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”
So basically,they are saying that if the jury does not vote for them,they are knocking down an American institution(in favour of a Korean company) and moreover,people will not invest as much in Silicon Valley as investments are more risky,which is a veiled hint at job creation. Remember there is a recession going on,and this is as touchy in the US as in any other country.
Remember what happened ,with the recent purchase of Brazilian light attack aircraft ?? After much whinging in the US that foreign companies won(even though they had US partners and most of the aircraft were to be built in the US IIRC),they overturned the decision. It has been the same with many large procurements,where US companies have pushed the economic benefits over foreign bids(even though they are probably creating a similar number of jobs in the US too).
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Meanwhile, in Korea, both Samsung and Apple are facing bans. For those keeping score on patent infringement, Apple has opened ahead with 2 infringements to Samsung's 1.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...oul-court-says
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
OTH,the Apple lawyers are using "nationalist" and "economic" sentiment though:
“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”
The potential fall-out from decisions like these could be great popcorn sellers :)
We already see China not falling into line with regards to patent infringement......a plethora of dodgy decisions against Samsung could potentially see Korea start flaunting the laws as well, especially if they start to feel that the country is losing money based on dodgy legal decisions made in the US.
Surely we need an international body for patents? Anything else seems to be a bodge.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
shaithis
The potential fall-out from decisions like these could be great popcorn sellers :)
We already see China not falling into line with regards to patent infringement......a plethora of dodgy decisions against Samsung could potentially see Korea start flaunting the laws as well, especially if they start to feel that the country is losing money based on dodgy legal decisions made in the US.
Surely we need an international body for patents? Anything else seems to be a bodge.
Yep,this is the problem. An international body would help,as long as it is can be kept objective.
BTW,guess who won........
APPLE!!
They have been awarded at least 1 billion dollars in damages.
Should have a made a bet on it.
I didn't know this:
http://www.itproportal.com/2012/08/1...n-apple-trial/
I do have a feeling the appeal process,might plod along for a while.
Edit!!
Saw the following on another forum.
Quote:
The first verdicts out of Apple vs. Samsung are in, covering claims 19, 8, and 50 of the so-called '381, '915, and '163 software patents, respectively — those are the patents that cover "bounce back" scrolling functionality, pinch-to-zoom, and tap-to-zoom. Did Samsung infringe, according to the jury?
For claim 19 of '381, the answer is yes for all devices.
For claim 8 of '915, the answer is yes for all but the Ace, Intercept, and Replenish.
For claim 50 of '163, the answer is yes for all but the Captivate, Continuum, Gem, Indulge, Nexus S 4G, Transform, Intercept, and Vibrant.
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Samsung vs Apple - Samsung guilty
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Re: Samsung vs Apple - Samsung guilty
I personally think Samsung should now tell Apple to go forth and multiply when they next ask for chips & screens for the IOS devices for a start.
I wonder how many of the jury actually own Apple devices comes to mind here, not forgetting that Apple headquarters are based in California also so there could be some sort of conflict there.
Apple with this whole patent thing, they are not innovative, its one of the reasons all their stuff looks exactly the same year after year (Macbook range, IPad, IPhone, IPod etc). Half these so called patents they apparently own were copied from stuff that was around years before Apple even started making phones. I really hope that something is done about them and they are knocked down a peg or two.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple - Samsung guilty
I have merged these two threads as they both deal with the same topic
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
the courtroom is 10 mile from Apple HQ...
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Appalling and potentially disastrous result :-(
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Can't say I am overly surprised to be honest. This trial was only ever going to end in Apple's favour. I just hope as others have said that Apple get knocked down a peg or two.
Samsung refusing to complete chip and screen orders etc to delay iPhone 5?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Sounds OK to me... no, seriously...
What did they find in Apple's favour on? The citings where they couldn't really not find in Apple's favour, the bounce-back, the tap-to-zoom, and the scroll, rotate, zoom function. Why could they not find in Samsung's favour ? Because the question being asked of them in court was if Samsung's devices were using functionality in breach of the specific patent descriptions laid out by Apple. Now these are quite cut-and-dry, did the Samsung devices have the functionality as described in the patent granted to Apple ? Well, yes they did.
The one's where there is room for interpretation such as the copying of the rounded corners etc of the iPad in the Samsung tablets, they ruled no breach. So they didn't say Samsung had copied the overall design of Apple products, just some specific functions of the devices which had been explicitly described in patents granted to Apple.
The thing to remember here is we're talking about two MASSIVE corporations with thousands of employees, turnover in the hundreds of $Bn, profits in the tens of $Bn, yes the $1Bn fine will hit Samsung hard, but not that hard, and I doubt it will end up being that big anyway once the appeals etc are over. Plus don't forget the huge increase of publicity this has had for the Samsung brand, for all those iPhone users around the globe who never really considered Samsung now have it in their mind that Apple are worried enough to take them to this massive trial.
Plus Samsung win anyway, they supply lots of components for the iPhone so will still make money from Apple's sales, plus they are not locked into a single design like Apple and i'm sure can adapt their designs very quickly to come up with something suitable for market without infringing anything. Also, even if the US bans Samsung devices, the rest of the world won't and I don't think the US will like the rest of the world having more choice of innovative technology than them for long.
In the end it's not just Apple being monstrous here, it's companies using whatever legal means they can to get ahead, stay ahead, and destroy their competition, it's what companies do, Apple are just utilising the advantage they can currently leverage from US patent law. It's what MS did in the early 90's buying out anyone that looked even slightly threatening, what Sony did using the PS3 to push HD-DVD out of the market. And it's what Amazon is doing now by operating a delivery only business in all EU countries to pay the least tax and getting the Luxembourg Government to reduce VAT on eBooks to 2.5% so UK book shops can't compete with having to charge UK 20% VAT. In some ways Amazon are worse, at least Apple is a multi-Billion$ company taking on an equally sized multi-Billion$ company, whereas Amazon are strategically destroying the small->medium businesses on the high street, but that's just good business. Businesses will always use whatever legal means they can to get and keep competitive advantage.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Didn't Apple start doing all of this in the 1980s,when they felt threatened by the desktop competition??
The courtroom was only a few miles from the Apple HQ too.
Saw the following on OcUK.
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...03492093_n.jpg
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...8&postcount=31
:p
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Just read this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...?newsfeed=true
"The jury's quick decision – just two days of deliberations in an immensely complex case, with more than 100 pages of instructions from the judge – surely means the panel members had made up their minds in the courtroom and spent most of their time in the jury room filling out a 20-page form of checkboxes and granular detail. And on almost every point that mattered, they gave Apple what it wanted. The jury tossed out virtually all of Samsung's counter-claims against Apple for infringement on its own patents, and awarded no damages to Samsung."
This made me smile:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2010/08...3-years-ago/2/
Edit!!
It gets even better:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-patent-holder
600 questions answered in a very short time.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
It was never going to be a fair trial. I just want to see what Samsung does outside the US etc.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
The courtroom was only a few miles from the Apple HQ too.
:p
I really don't see how that makes the slightest difference to anything... I can't imagine the court will only pick jurors from the immediate surrounding area, I know when I did Jury Duty (admittedly in the UK) I had to travel around 50 miles each way on the train every day to get to court and I certainly wasn't the only one.
As for there being a member of the jury who had been through patent processes before and could help the jurors come to decisions about some things quicker, so what ? There's nothing wrong with that, a case I was a juror on had a defendant who was a member of a boxing club and one of the other jurors used to run a boxing club so we asked him some questions about that topic, different people will have differing levels of knowledge (and opinions) in certain areas, but all have equal say, that's the idea of a jury.
The fact is it was an easy case for them to decide on, it was simply a matter of looking at each patent to see what it describes and then deciding if the Samsung products listed perform those functions in a way close enough to match the description of the patent. If it did then Samsung were in breach of the patent, if it didn't or the description in the patent was too vague then no breach. They weren't there to decide whether the patent was right to have been granted unless evidence was presented to show that Apple was not the originator.
There's a lot of talk of a Sony design being copied by Apple as the base for the shape of the iPhone and the designs not being eligible for admission in court as they were found too late, but they ruled no breach by Samsung in the copying of the shape so it's a moot point.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
I can see this going really well for a Korean company with a
US jury:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/...-goes-to-jury/
Re-affirm how great the broken US patent system is and Apple making their own phones with Samsung technology!! :lol:
I like how Apple is stoking up national sentiment by emphasising "American" to the jury and the economic benefits to America too.
I expect Apple to win,just because Samsung is Korean and the people in the jury probably would have no real intention of helping out a non-US company. So basically a screwed up patent system which helps US companies and a court system which helps them out too.
i love the fact that Apple manufacture outside the US,while Samsung have invested billions in new manufacturing plants in the US.
Oh BT and hyperlink patient was thrown out of a US court.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barakka
Which is why when Apple offered an IP licencing deal to Samsung back in 2010 (before thinking about taking legal action) they had special provisions in there to reflect the fact that Samsung is a strategic supplier to Apple. Offering reduced royalty rates and a 20% discount overall if Samsung was willing to cross-licence patents in return.
This was a discounted version of the IP deal they offered to Microsoft, who took them up on the offer to licence Apple patents to use in the MS Surface products.
Really these two devices look similar ?
Nooo....
http://www.careace.net/wp-content/up...axy-s-head.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smudger
Weren't the terms offered ridiculously geared in Apple's favour? Did I imagine they wanted $30 a handset from them? And no, they don't look the same, similar, but not the same. In the same way as 2 modern cars will look similar, or every portable tape player looked similar to the Walkman, but not the same... Form follows function with phones...
You agree!!
:p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barakka
Sounds OK to me... no, seriously...
using whatever legal means they can to get ahead, stay ahead, and destroy their competition
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...from_orbit.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HalloweenJack
the courtroom is 10 mile from Apple HQ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barakka
I really don't see how that makes the slightest difference to anything... I can't imagine the court will only pick jurors from the immediate surrounding area, I know when I did Jury Duty (admittedly in the UK) I had to travel around 50 miles each way on the train every day to get to court and I certainly wasn't the only one.
As for there being a member of the jury who had been through patent processes before and could help the jurors come to decisions about some things quicker, so what ? There's nothing wrong with that, a case I was a juror on had a defendant who was a member of a boxing club and one of the other jurors used to run a boxing club so we asked him some questions about that topic, different people will have differing levels of knowledge (and opinions) in certain areas, but all have equal say, that's the idea of a jury.
The fact is it was an easy case for them to decide on, it was simply a matter of looking at each patent to see what it describes and then deciding if the Samsung products listed perform those functions in a way close enough to match the description of the patent. If it did then Samsung were in breach of the patent, if it didn't or the description in the patent was too vague then no breach. They weren't there to decide whether the patent was right to have been granted unless evidence was presented to show that Apple was not the originator.
There's a lot of talk of a Sony design being copied by Apple as the base for the shape of the iPhone and the designs not being eligible for admission in court as they were found too late, but they ruled no breach by Samsung in the copying of the shape so it's a moot point.
What phones and tablets did the jury use??
:p :p :p :p
Just Joking
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
I guess Samsung should offer to buy those designs of Sony, and counter sue Apple.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
petercook7
i love the fact that Apple manufacture outside the US,while Samsung have invested billions in new manufacturing plants in the US.
Oh BT and hyperlink patient was thrown out of a US court.
Darn it!! You just let the cat out of the bag!!:secret:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
petercook7
I guess Samsung should offer to buy those designs of Sony, and counter sue Apple.
Dropping a Moose from orbit might be more useful! :p
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Well it only serves to make Apple look less and less like a company worth buying products from.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
http://www.careace.net/wp-content/up...axy-s-head.jpg
how on earth could you not think these two things looked the same?
samsung even had internal emails saying how they should change the design to be more like apples
i don't know why apple kept on using them as a supplier
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
From a consumer perspective, this won't affect you unless you live/move to the States.
From a "justice" perspective, and before accusations against the US resumes, I will quickly note that this is not the first court Samsung has been found guilty in. Perhaps the most important battle so far (market size wise), but my point is that opinions have been been split (and if I am not mistaken, Apple does have the edge overall in terms of victories so far). Well, one could argue that the court can get it wrong, but if you can't trust the court of several countries, then who will you trust.
Samsung will be appealing (no surprise) so it's not over. That said, Samsung will make a loss in the mean time. What I am wondering with (I am not versed to the US legal system), is that IF Samsung wins on appeal, would Apple need to pay for the opportunity cost?
-------------------------------
Now moving on to a couple of personal observations (don't feel like making a long post - got things to do):
1. I wouldn't have thought that the rubber band effect is such a big deal (and I am pretty sure that I could live without it if the screen stops scrolling). But given that the patent *was* granted for the technique used to accomplish that effect (I have read that it is possible to get the same effect using other methods, but Samsung did not use them), I would say that it the example of a case where the court can only rule in Apple's favour.
2. Regarding similarities.. Well, it's fair to say that there is zero chance of one confusing one phone for the other. Or rather, there is no way for the Samsung to be mistaken for the Apple simply because it is clearly written on the front of the device. But if talking about similarities, the question of how similar is too similar remains. And I would argue that the more familiar one is with the device/technology, the more the differences jump to our eyes. I know almost nothing about cars, though I do know that some cars have two doors while others have four since I'v had to climb in and out of cars with 2 doors before. So yes, I can tell there are two different cars. But beyond that, they do look similar to me and without visible logo from that angle, I genuinely can't identify them, and if it was not in the context it is posted, I would've believed it if someone told me they were different models from the same manufacturer. To the car enthusiasts, it might sound absurd, but there you go.
I'll also note that I find the Nokia and RIM similarly similar to the Samsung and the Apple. I am actually not sure which one came first, but presumably they did not feel strongly enough or find it importantly enough to fight about the "look and feel". Also, I still do not think that there is a *guarantee* that one will win given the subjective nature, but from what I have read, the evidence from Samsung's internal documents was fairly damning. Without it, the argument that form follows functions would have been a lot stronger.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
2. Regarding similarities.. Well, it's fair to say that there is zero chance of one confusing one phone for the other. Or rather, there is no way for the Samsung to be mistaken for the Apple simply because it is clearly written on the front of the device. But if talking about similarities, the question of how similar is too similar remains. And I would argue that the more familiar one is with the device/technology, the more the differences jump to our eyes. I know almost nothing about cars, though I do know that some cars have two doors while others have four since I'v had to climb in and out of cars with 2 doors before. So yes, I can tell there are two different cars. But beyond that, they do look similar to me and without visible logo from that angle, I genuinely can't identify them, and if it was not in the context it is posted, I would've believed it if someone told me they were different models from the same manufacturer. To the car enthusiasts, it might sound absurd, but there you go.
I find it quite worrying on this front if it is involved the lawsuit. Yes they're similar but certainly not identical, how can you patent a 'style'?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I do not think it needs to be identical though. If I was to make a close but not identical copy (e.g. add a pocket here, us a zip instead of a button there and flip the pattern 45 degrees) of an existing Louis Vuitton product and call it Luis Vouitton and started selling by the truckloads (enough to be noticed), I do not think that it is unrealistic for me to not expect their lawyers knocking on my door. I still think that the issue is deciding where to draw the line rather than whether there is a line to be drawn. Now I would think that the example I gave is more of a trademark issue than a patent one, but apparently there is such thing as a "Design Patent" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent) too. One way or another, it would involve a lawsuit though.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
I do not think it needs to be identical though. If I was to make a close but not identical copy (e.g. add a pocket here, us a zip instead of a button there and flip the pattern 45 degrees) of an existing Louis Vuitton product and call it Luis Vouitton and started selling by the truckloads (enough to be noticed), I do not think that it is unrealistic for me to not expect their lawyers knocking on my door. I still think that the issue is deciding where to draw the line rather than whether there is a line to be drawn. Now I would think that the example I gave is more of a trademark issue than a patent one, but apparently there is such thing as a "Design Patent" (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent) too. One way or another, it would involve a lawsuit though.
Yes I know of design patents of working in an e-business selling cases for electronics. But they only cover complete copies I believe i.e identical. Also your example is not comparable as Samsung never tried to pass it off via naming/brand etc as the same product as in your example. I mean a touch screen phone is a very basic device styling wise as the screen is pretty much the entirety of the phone. Just think it sets a dangerous precedent, where will the line be drawn exactly? You walk in any other electronics store, clothing etc and 90% of items are indistinguishable from other stores.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
It's too infuriating to follow all of this patent trolling nonsense, but lets just hope the appeal takes it to someone with an ounce of common sense + who can't be paid off. Samsung should use the bit about USA production to help them out if it's the senseless patriotism causing problems, and maybe someone will realise the pathetic USPTO needs sorting out to benefit consumers rather than huge corporations, harming consumers in the process. Or maybe everyone else could finally unite to retaliate against Apple?
I know I'm far from the only one to increasingly despise them with the constant patent trolling, amongst other stuff...
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Not sure if serious:
https://plus.google.com/110619855408...ts/NPTWKSQEHLi
Quote:
Enrique Gutierrez originally shared this post:
I can't make this stuff up
I'm sitting in a Starbucks doing random whatever over an iced americano. While I waiting for my drink, I watched a guy with his friend, pick up a newspaper; and start to remark on the Samsung Apple verdict.
Guy: "Wait, so what they're saying is, Samsung is the same as Apple?"
Friend: "I know, right? Makes me think twice about how much I paid for my Mac Book"
Guy: "Seriously"
Not 10 minutes later, a husband and wife, same newspaper:
Husband: "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff", after looking up the Samsung tablet on his iPhone.
Wife: "Oh wow," looking at the screen, "... that's a lot cheaper. Think we can return it?"
I put my Samsung QX410 on my table, and started to plug in, when he leans over to me, "Sorry, you don't mind if I ask, how much did you pay for your Samsung laptop?"
"Oh, no worries, it was $700." I replied.
I watched shock overcome his face, like actual shock. He looked at me, blankly, for an awkward amount of time, "Mind if I have a look?" he asked.
So, I obliged, and showed him a few things. He commented on Windows 7, so I opened up my virtual machine of OS/X... By the time the conversation was over, he was ready to kick Cupertino in the nuts, I think.
... Now, the punchline:
I'm writing this post after the FOURTH group of Starbucks patrons have made the connection that Samsung is now the same as Apple. They don't know the details, they don't really care, what they know is Apple is saying that Samsung is the same as Apple ... and with one simple Google Search, you get prices that are basically half for what seems to be the same products -- for nearly everything.
Two of these groups (including the husband/wife) asked me about my Samsung laptop, the second group noticed my Galaxy phone (also by Samsung)... Best billion dollar ad-campaign Samsung ever had.
:lol:
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
hahaha that's amazing. i really quite like apple products but can't justify paying the markup price for something i can get at a fraction of the price. really don't like their marketing stratergy either, even if it is incredibly sucessful, just feels a little underhand to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
http://www.careace.net/wp-content/up...axy-s-head.jpg
how on earth could you not think these two things looked the same?
samsung even had internal emails saying how they should change the design to be more like apples
i don't know why apple kept on using them as a supplier
Isn't there quite a large difference in the screen size between those two phones?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
So the jury has just gone down a list of tickboxes and filled them in at random it would seem? Like you say, it's a mess...
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
None of this surprises me at all, the whole trial was a complete farce.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
More that's found out about the case and the jury the more it just looks like some scripted comedy. Foreman sounds like he'd basically decided his verdict prior to the trial even starting.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
This trial is a joke.
I can't believe how absurd it is!
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
W-o-w
Just goes to show the level of intelligence of people who will buy in to the whole apple 'it shiny and just works' environment.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andehh
Isn't there quite a large difference in the screen size between those two phones?
looks the same in that photo, and when looking at photos in print ad's or on the tv they just look the same too. so when you see the items for the first time with the prices next to them, and the android phones usually given away free on contracts, whereas you have to pay for apple, how many millions of people will think there's nothing in it and get the cheaper phone? and that takes money from apple and gives it to their competitor
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Hmm, to be fair, that picture has been resized. In the actual product, the earspeaker of the iPhone only reach the top "bar" of the Samsung's screen.
However, I think that the argument could be made that "larger" by itself is (subjectively) not enough to make it sufficiently dissimilar.
A lot of things can take money from Apple and give it to the competitor fairly. Apple also tries to pass itself as a luxurious product, so a portion from the sales may come from people who think that pricier is better, balancing out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SixFeet
[...]Also your example is not comparable as Samsung never tried to pass it off via naming/brand etc as the same product as in your example. I mean a touch screen phone is a very basic device styling wise as the screen is pretty much the entirety of the phone. Just think it sets a dangerous precedent, where will the line be drawn exactly?[...]
That is exactly something I would hate having to decide. Though I do think that a line will need to be drawn somewhere.
And the in the example I gave you, I included 3 points of differentiation. It's not a "real" counterfeit, the type that are meant to pass for the real thing.
But yes, I intentionally picked an example that is a very dark shade of grey to point out that it does not need to be identical to be viewed as dodgy by most (a few may find my example acceptable).
Anyway, this is just one of many battles that is currently being played. The good thing is that there is quite a lot of information about the case for people to analyse and scrutinise if they are inclined.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
http://www.zdnet.com/the-real-winner...ft-7000003165/
Well if this is the start of the dead jobs attempt to kill andriod, it may well benefit Microsoft!
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheAnimus
I hinted at that in my 5* cartoon earlier!! :p
BTW,I would beware of reading Foss Patents - it seems the chap might have a conflict of interest! He does consulting work for Microsoft and Oracle:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-paid-bloggers
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...20817151150419
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-574...ncol;morePosts
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
looks the same in that photo
The dimensions of the Galaxy S was doctored to make it fit side by side and look even more iphonish, even distorting the aspect ratio. Apple's lawyers were called out on it, even though the judge pretty much ignored that.
http://cdn4.digitaltrends.com/wp-con...laxy_final.jpg
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
looks the same in that photo, and when looking at photos in print ad's or on the tv they just look the same too. so when you see the items for the first time with the prices next to them, and the android phones usually given away free on contracts, whereas you have to pay for apple, how many millions of people will think there's nothing in it and get the cheaper phone? and that takes money from apple and gives it to their competitor
Yeah it's called competition, of course Apple would love to be the only option but thankfully for consumers that's not how the market works. As I've said before, just because something is a rounded rectangle doesn't mean it's a copy of some iTat; looking on my desk, some paper, the front of my speakers and a flash drive match that description too - are they copying Apple, despite existing way before them?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Of course the LG Prada came quite a while before the iphone:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....-prada-pt2.jpg
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
do we really need to keep rehashing old points made over and over and over in every single thread?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
That's unbelievable, Apple laid out the numerical buttons in the exact same order.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biscuit
do we really need to keep rehashing old points made over and over and over in every single thread?
Of course we do ;) Apparently anyway..we're all guilty of it.
Time for me to be called a troll again - I'm glad that the case is finally resolved (well, until appeal), and also that the legal process was followed and Apple won the case (as they rightly should have done).
Yes it's true that it's debatable whether or not Apple should have been granted the patents that they were, but that is not what this trial was about. Samsung clearly made mistakes and now they are paying for it - the morals are irrelevant imo.
Good news for Apple and hopefully this will help to speed up the other, related cases towards conclusion.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spud1
Of course we do ;) Apparently anyway..we're all guilty of it.
Time for me to be called a troll again - I'm glad that the case is finally resolved (well, until appeal), and also that the legal process was followed and Apple won the case (as they rightly should have done).
Yes it's true that it's debatable whether or not Apple should have been granted the patents that they were, but that is not what this trial was about. Samsung clearly made mistakes and now they are paying for it - the morals are irrelevant imo.
Good news for Apple and hopefully this will help to speed up the other, related cases towards conclusion.
You must be upset they didn't win much in the UK.
:p
BTW,your Apple gear looks pretty old,you need an update. The newer stuff I have used from them is much nicer.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
watercooled
Yeah it's called competition, of course Apple would love to be the only option but thankfully for consumers that's not how the market works. As I've said before, just because something is a rounded rectangle doesn't mean it's a copy of some iTat; looking on my desk, some paper, the front of my speakers and a flash drive match that description too - are they copying Apple, despite existing way before them?
but competitors copying someone elses design isn't competition. the customer loses out. if they had to come up with something new, the customers would get more choice and it would increase competition
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikerr
have you ever used the prada phone? it's a peice of crap. the idea was great but in practice the phone was crap. i looked into buying one when they first came out, but the sales person advised against it, that's how bad the phone was
prada announced the phone in december 2006 and apple announce the iphone at the start of january 2007. apple had been working on the iphone and ipad for years before so they couldn't have copied each other
the lawsuit isn't just about a rectangular shape, it's a number of other things and samsung got too close. there's nothing stopping anyone making a rectangular shaped phone
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
You must be upset they didn't win much in the UK.
:p
BTW,your Apple gear looks pretty old,you need an update. The newer stuff I have used is much nicer.
Nah the UK case was different - I was annoyed at how the case was handled but Apple should have lost anyway under UK/EU law which isn't as ridiculous as US law.
My POV is pretty simple.
1) Apple should never have been granted the patents they were. It's a stupid situation
2) Samsung clearly DID copy Apples designs, but then this isn't necessarily wrong - it's common practice in all industries.
3) On a purely legal standpoint apple has the patents so therefore samsung should pay up, pretty simple.
on the o/t note my Apple gear has no need for replacement ;) The Mac Pro (which doesn't run OSX) still doesn't need upgrading after 4 years, still works perfectly..and my mac air is still perfect for what it does. I'll probably replace the air with a Surface Pro ultra-tablet hybrid when it gets release, assuming they can make them as thin/light/strong as the Mac Airs. I don't buy some of their stuff just because it's Apple - I buy it because of the quality and that it lasts a long long time. Still have a 4G iPod from 2004 that works great 8 years on!
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
but competitors copying someone elses design isn't competition. the customer loses out. if they had to come up with something new, the customers would get more choice and it would increase competition
Sorry to say,this but unfortunately for you,in the last 100 years,loads of things have similar designs. I posted some examples a few posts back.
Look at something like a commercial airliner.
They all have similer arrangements,which were pioneered by the Boeing B47 in the 1940s. Do you see Boeing sueing everybody just because podded engines were used?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spud1
Nah the UK case was different - I was annoyed at how the case was handled but Apple should have lost anyway under UK/EU law which isn't as ridiculous as US law.
My POV is pretty simple.
1) Apple should never have been granted the patents they were. It's a stupid situation
2) Samsung clearly DID copy Apples designs, but then this isn't necessarily wrong - it's common practice in all industries.
3) On a purely legal standpoint apple has the patents so therefore samsung should pay up, pretty simple.
BTW,it seems Apple is starting to get some patents in the US regarding gaming:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...aming-console/
This is going to turn out well!!:p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spud1
on the o/t note my Apple gear has no need for replacement ;) The Mac Pro (which doesn't run OSX) still doesn't need upgrading after 4 years, still works perfectly..and my mac air is still perfect for what it does. I'll probably replace the air with a Surface Pro ultra-tablet hybrid when it gets release, assuming they can make them as thin/light/strong as the Mac Airs. I don't buy some of their stuff just because it's Apple - I buy it because of the quality and that it lasts a long long time. Still have a 4G iPod from 2004 that works great 8 years on!
Foxconn is an OEM for Apple and many companies. My Shuttle SD37P2 still seems to work fine after nearly 6 years(!) and I have phones from 2002 to 2003 which still work. Even my G2 Shuttle worked and that was bought in 2005(although now its being modded). My old MSI laptop(magnesium bodied),did start having issues but it was at least 6 years old,and I did not look after it. My mate has the same model and he only replaced it since it was too slow for video(it must be around 7 to 8 years old). Modern technology is reliable,unless there is cost cutting.
I have had quite a lot of experience with Apple gear myself from places I have worked at before. I remember at one of the old places I worked at,I ordered the Intel Mac Pro one day after they came out(dual 2.66ghz dual core at the time),as it was cheaper with the discounts than the equivalent Dell workstation. Both that and the Intel iMac I ordered at a similar time still work last time I checked. However,so do all the Dell Precision workstations and control PCs we ordered which seem fine after yonks,and some of these were connected £50k+ setups. Regarding Apple laptops,I do like them(to a degree) and some of the G4 ones(the metal ones) I have used were ancient. However,the apple has to go to some G3 and Win95 computers still used to drive legacy equipment,which are like 12 to 15 years old.
OTH,the G4 eMacs had loads of issues and the one we had need repairing twice and I have known many places through them out over the years(production fault which people don't realise). The G5 iMacs were terrible though,and I have known early MacBook Pro adopters which had the overheating problems(silly OEM applied excessive TIM!). Of course,they were also RM computers which had issues too. However,some of the really cheap Dells which were used for basic equipment still work after 6 to 7 years(!),although TBH the more recent(last 4 to 5 years) Dell budget equipment is not as good IMHO and more unreliable.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Yeah I know other suppliers also make reliable equipment, and with every supplier (inc Apple) it can be very hit and miss. Had my own fair share of issues with Apple products. The general message is you get what you pay for. If you buy a cheap £400 Acer machine, it just won't last. If you buy a £1k Acer machine, it probably will do.
From my experience you have to get the right ones at the right times - like you I got my Mac Pro (mine is the generation after) because you just couldn't buy an equivalent for the same money, even going self build. The CPUs alone would have been £1000 to buy seperately, and when you added in the rest..Dell didn't even make an 8-core system at the time (inc workstations).
These days I wouldn't get another Mac Pro - they have shot up in cost over recent years and the current generation just isn't much better than the Dell equivalent, whilst costing a few hundred more. Maybe the next generation will be worthwhile but I am not so sure ;/ No need to replace anyway right now it's more than fast enough for me :)
All that said - despite looking at ultra books from Asus/Acer/Samsung and dell, I am yet to find one of the quality of the Mac Air. They are all good ultra books but they have all cost cut somewhere that Apple didn't - usually through the use of plastic rather than metal, or a compromise on size. This is where I am really hoping the surface pro tablets can shine..similar price point (£800-£1000), similar hardware but with a touch screen and removable keyboard...oh and a real/full OS, none of this Android or iOS nonsense....lush ;D
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I do like the MacBook Air generally,although I would say the latest Asus Zenbook Prime seems awesome looking at the reviews. The screen is suprisingly good and they seem to be one of the few OEMs really try to compete effectively IMHO with the Apple laptops and tablets.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Apple lose court case in South Korea must withdraw its products from the shops.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
The design patents were on the use of rectangular shape with rounded edges though on both icons and the phone itself:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...%3Dinteractive
It seems,one of the patents was exactly the same but only differentiated by colour(black and white). Yet the verdicts were very different!
So basically,if you use rounded square icons,or a phone with rounded edges which is black or maybe white you are screwed in the US.
However,regarding P2Z,there is probably prior art too,but one of the jurors mentioned it was bogging them down and they decided to ignore it so they could move quicker.
I simply don't understand what the rush was for?? Did they need to watch a baseball or football game??
Looking at the groklaw link I posted earlier,this is an entire mess.
IMHO,they should have selected a jury of experts in the field,who had experience with phone and UI design.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
but competitors copying someone elses design isn't competition. the customer loses out. if they had to come up with something new, the customers would get more choice and it would increase competition
Apple isn't guilty of blatantly copying existing ideas? :lol:
The consumer loses out when a company is allowed to patent things like shapes, or UI features which have been accepted as common practice long beforehand, as Apple is continually allowed to do.
I don't see how Apple 'rightly' won the case, unless you hold shares in the company or don't have a clue what's been going on with them; even to the letter of the law, the jury still badly messed up, accusing Samsung of infringing patents they clearly didn't and had to revise the judgement. If that doesn't say how ridiculous the case was, there's even proof of prior art in many cases which have been ignored, of course. It's good news for Apple and Apple alone, everyone else loses out, including, importantly, consumers. Hopefully the next stage involves some intelligence/common sense and not a paid-off/led/clueless jury.
It's often the case you get what you pay for, but with Apple, you pay generally at least twice as much for the same, and that's before you look at the laughable pricing of extras like HDDs/more RAM/etc. Aside from possibly the iPod which was reasonably priced, I've never come across anything Apple worth even half the money, even when I was open to buying from them and wanting to give them a try. I've had plenty of experience with them in college amongst other places, they're certainly no better than a half decent PC.
The 'just works'/reliability stuff is plain marketing guff - any laptop/PC 'just works' and I have a PC from 98 which still works like the day it was bought, another from early 00's, a laptop from around the same time, all of them work just fine. I even stripped + tested the Li-ion cells in the battery pack and they tested about 90% the printed capacity. People often assume slowness caused by installing a ton of crap is actually the hardware somehow failing, which is, of course, not the case.
On the other hand, the G5 Macs weren't exactly known for reliability...
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
The design patents were on the use of rectangular shape with rounded edges though on both icons and the phone itself:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...%3Dinteractive
It seems,one of the patents was exactly the same but only differentiated by colour(black and white). Yet the verdicts were very different!
So basically,if you use rounded square icons,or a phone with rounded edges which is black or maybe white you are screwed in the US.
However,regarding P2Z,there is
probably prior art too,but one of the jurors mentioned it was bogging them down and they decided to ignore it so they could move quicker.
I simply don't understand what the rush was for?? Did they need to watch a baseball or football game??
Looking at the groklaw link I posted earlier,this is an entire mess.
IMHO,they should have selected a jury of experts in the field,who had experience with phone and UI design.
but that goes against the idea of a jury. it's up to the experts to prove to the jury
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Sorry to say,this but unfortunately for you,in the last 100 years,loads of things have similar designs. I posted some examples a few posts back.
Look at something like a commercial airliner.
They all have similer arrangements,which were pioneered by the Boeing B47 in the 1940s. Do you see Boeing sueing everybody just because podded engines were used?
but there is a big difference between "similar designs" and clear copies. if you don't patent or copyright things then there's nothing stopping people making them, but apple clearly did in these cases
i'm not expert in planes, but they are considerably more complicated than phones. you have outside design, engines, mechanics, inside electrics, seating, decoration, etc, so there are many things that go to make planes look different. many things are outsourced usually, such as engines, thus the same engine in a 747 is used in other planes, the makers of the engine presumably having rights to stop others copying their ideas the same as boing
no-one is stopping anyone from making a touch screen smartphone, they just need it to be different from the iphone. who says the a touch screen phone needs rounded icons or the edge of the phone needs to be like that? there's a number of different ways to do it, so no need to copy
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
have you ever used the prada phone? it's a peice of crap. the idea was great but in practice the phone was crap. i looked into buying one when they first came out, but the sales person advised against it, that's how bad the phone was
prada announced the phone in december 2006 and apple announce the iphone at the start of january 2007. apple had been working on the iphone and ipad for years before so they couldn't have copied each other
the lawsuit isn't just about a rectangular shape, it's a number of other things and samsung got too close. there's nothing stopping anyone making a rectangular shaped phone
Did you ever use the first iphone? That was a piece of crap too tbh
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
the prada was actually released in early 2006 as it won a mobile device award halfway through the year... so it was on show plenty before apple announced their iPhone.
LG were kicking off at Apple many moons ago about them copying their phone but they went quiet and the only way I can see they would is if Apple paid them a crap load in royalties or something, to my knowledge they havent had any attacks from Apple and vice versa.
The whole trial was a farce and its actually depressing that they could come up with a finished result in 3 days, I know they keep banging on that a guy in their had a patent so they listened to him well they SHOULDNT, it must just be me but if you have everyone listening to one guys interpretation of the law then you have a skewed view and he could have been Apple sided or just blind.
Hopefully this gets thrown out, it seems only South Korea has the right idea of giving them an beating either side as they BOTH infringe, yes Samsung probably does infringe on a few patents but so does Apple and alot of it is basic evolution not innovation! You shouldnt be able to have the rights to universal icons, phone icons are generic same as email etc so it should be dismissed. Multi-touch? Prior art should have been considered, if it was really a good patent then why hasnt Apple gone after all touch screen phones? Because they want to stifle competition, they are hurting not financially but they are losing their premium feel and have gone out of fashion. A friend of my has always been an Apple fan, always buying their new gear on launch (even queues sometimes!) and this year his iphone 4s broke (dropped... every smartphone dies this way :( ) and he went out and got an S3 straight away, he loves it and now finds the Apple ecosystem poor, so Apple are struggling to keep customers IMO.
The thing that gets me is that alot of patents are hard, you can be working on things at a similar time and yet company A gets the tech out a month quicker and patents it and then company B releases their tech, it maybe the exact same thing and does things slightly differently, for instance the idea of bounce/rubber band menus is simple but you can implement it in many different ways but the end result is the same so you could do two different ways and get called out as the end result looks the same!.
If the code is copied then yes fair play screw them. Samsung should be able to kick off with the shape as their phones have always been candybar style and had a frame round the sides, all they have done is change the keys to a big touch screen so I find it hard that this was criticised. The funny part is the jury saying that the slides of Samsung looking at the iphone and how to improve their phones, that shouldnt be damning, they already have their phones out and are improving it... they really think Apple doesnt do this? Oh look Android has made this notification system really important and useful (made by Nokia though right? Regardless..) lets implement something similar in the next version... oh but we must differentiate, lets put a weather widget in it as standard. And widgets, they didnt have them originally and now they do as Android showed it was useful.
It just seems so one sided and the whole system needs a reform, its not Apples fault for making full use of the flawed laws as they shouldnt be like that anyway... I bet any other company would do the same as non are really 100% moral they just want to make money (and who doesnt) but that was the whole point of these laws but they are old and broken!.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
but there is a big difference between "similar designs" and clear copies. if you don't patent or copyright things then there's nothing stopping people making them, but apple clearly did in these cases
Sure there is, trademarks. Counterfeitting products is illegal irrespective of patents and copyright. The reason why there was no trademark violation is because Samsung clearly marketed their product as the Samsung Galaxy S, and the product itself in fact isn't a clear copy in real life. The dimensions of the phone are different (the Galaxy S is larger and broader), the back and sides are completely different, the OS is different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
i'm not expert in planes, but they are considerably more complicated than phones. you have outside design, engines, mechanics, inside electrics, seating, decoration, etc, so there are many things that go to make planes look different. many things are outsourced usually, such as engines, thus the same engine in a 747 is used in other planes, the makers of the engine presumably having rights to stop others copying their ideas the same as boing
Sure, and these are big complex systems Boeing works on, and the standard for patent quality (being original and specific) in their industry is significantly greater than that of software and designs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
no-one is stopping anyone from making a touch screen smartphone, they just need it to be different from the iphone. who says the a touch screen phone needs rounded icons or the edge of the phone needs to be like that? there's a number of different ways to do it, so no need to copy
You mean you don't understand why there's an obvious and practical reason for giving a phone rounded corner designs (like every other phone long before the iPhone)? How about stopping the phone from getting snagged in someone's pocket? What alternatives do you think there is? Butter the sharp edges? How long until the alternatives are all patented out?
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
but there is a big difference between "similar designs" and clear copies. if you don't patent or copyright things then there's nothing stopping people making them, but apple clearly did in these cases
i'm not expert in planes, but they are considerably more complicated than phones. you have outside design, engines, mechanics, inside electrics, seating, decoration, etc, so there are many things that go to make planes look different. many things are outsourced usually, such as engines, thus the same engine in a 747 is used in other planes, the makers of the engine presumably having rights to stop others copying their ideas the same as boing
no-one is stopping anyone from making a touch screen smartphone, they just need it to be different from the iphone. who says the a touch screen phone needs rounded icons or the edge of the phone needs to be like that? there's a number of different ways to do it, so no need to copy
Except,the modern design of the airliner was pioneered in many ways by the B47. A notable innovation was the use of podded engines. You don't "need" to use podded engines though. Engines buried in the wing roots(The Comet) and attached to the rear(Trident and DC11) are alternatives. However,it appears to have been an optimal way to do things.
The same allegations were leveled at the Russians regarding the Concorde and Tu144. To the untrained eye they looked the same(hence the name Concordski),but they were in reality very different. If you looked at the SST designs at the time worldwide,delta wings,wing mounted engines and a pencil like fuselage were all present - the limitations of the engineering at the time worldwide meant this was the most optimal way to do things.
You forget,Apple tried to imply ownership of the desktop mouse driven UI,which Xerox pioneered(they were the first to have a working concept of the home office in the 1970s) and Steve Jobs admits was influenced by them(even got their assistance) when he visited Xerox PARC in the 1970s. Apple lost all claims to the UI in 1994. For Xerox it sucked especially as everyone ripped them off,and they were not able to actually patent it due to interference from the US government in the 1970s. Luckily for them the fact they invented the laser printer and ethernet still made them profitable.
But,OTH perhaps it was for the best - after all there might have been no Apple or Microsoft which meant affordable computing for the masses.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
LOL:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...end-a-message/
Apple v. Samsung juror: we "wanted to send a message"
Yet the judge said the following.
Quote:
"The amount of those damages must be adequate to compensate the patent holder for the infringement. A damages award should put the patent holder in approximately the financial position it would have been in had the infringement not occurred, but in no event may the damages award be less than a reasonable royalty. You should keep in mind that the damages you award are meant to compensate the patent holder and not to punish an infringer."
http://i.imgur.com/Ikkeh.jpg
:p
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I can't see this linked yet: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...25390&repost=1
Absolute stunning account of events. The entire case is more of a farce than I imagined.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
petercook7
Apple lose court case in South Korea must withdraw its products from the shops.
Last I checked, the court in South Korea ruled them both guilty of breaching each others patent and both companies must withdraw some of their products from the market. In terms of fine, Samsung's was marginally higher. I am not sure about the "value" of the products they need to withdraw from the market though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biscuit
Did you ever use the first iphone? That was a piece of crap too tbh
Hey, I am still using that piece of crap :laugh:
Well, I would say that it's biggest weakness compared to decent existing candy bar phones at the time was a lack of 3G and below average camera (I am excluding the inability to switch out batteries and absence of SD card because it's a common weakness with iPhones). I think that the lack of 3G is the main reason why it's the only iPhone with a bargain sale prior to the release of the 3G. At £189, it was actually cheaper than most high end candy bar at it's time, and I would argue that the loss of 3G and weak camera is easily evened up with the availability of useful apps.
Certainly, it was good enough for me to decide that I would, from then on, stick to smartphones (something my first smartphone failed to do as I went back to candy bar phones). Now I've been meaning to replace it for a while, but until 3 weeks ago, it was never *bad enough* that I wouldn't prioritise the purchase of other things. It also didn't show any sign of failure until 3 weeks ago, through self-inflicted damage that damaged every piece non-waterproof electronics I had on me (I climbed Mt Fuji, and on the way down it poured harder than I ever experienced).
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biscuit
Did you ever use the first iphone? That was a piece of crap too tbh
yeah, i used it for about 3 years. it was a great phone. it was the greatest improvement between phones that i'd ever had, by far
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hicks12
the prada was actually released in early 2006 as it won a mobile device award halfway through the year... so it was on show plenty before apple announced their iPhone.
LG were kicking off at Apple many moons ago about them copying their phone but they went quiet and the only way I can see they would is if Apple paid them a crap load in royalties or something, to my knowledge they havent had any attacks from Apple and vice versa.
The whole trial was a farce and its actually depressing that they could come up with a finished result in 3 days, I know they keep banging on that a guy in their had a patent so they listened to him well they SHOULDNT, it must just be me but if you have everyone listening to one guys interpretation of the law then you have a skewed view and he could have been Apple sided or just blind.
Hopefully this gets thrown out, it seems only South Korea has the right idea of giving them an beating either side as they BOTH infringe, yes Samsung probably does infringe on a few patents but so does Apple and alot of it is basic evolution not innovation! You shouldnt be able to have the rights to universal icons, phone icons are generic same as email etc so it should be dismissed. Multi-touch? Prior art should have been considered, if it was really a good patent then why hasnt Apple gone after all touch screen phones? Because they want to stifle competition, they are hurting not financially but they are losing their premium feel and have gone out of fashion. A friend of my has always been an Apple fan, always buying their new gear on launch (even queues sometimes!) and this year his iphone 4s broke (dropped... every smartphone dies this way :( ) and he went out and got an S3 straight away, he loves it and now finds the Apple ecosystem poor, so Apple are struggling to keep customers IMO.
The thing that gets me is that alot of patents are hard, you can be working on things at a similar time and yet company A gets the tech out a month quicker and patents it and then company B releases their tech, it maybe the exact same thing and does things slightly differently, for instance the idea of bounce/rubber band menus is simple but you can implement it in many different ways but the end result is the same so you could do two different ways and get called out as the end result looks the same!.
If the code is copied then yes fair play screw them. Samsung should be able to kick off with the shape as their phones have always been candybar style and had a frame round the sides, all they have done is change the keys to a big touch screen so I find it hard that this was criticised. The funny part is the jury saying that the slides of Samsung looking at the iphone and how to improve their phones, that shouldnt be damning, they already have their phones out and are improving it... they really think Apple doesnt do this? Oh look Android has made this notification system really important and useful (made by Nokia though right? Regardless..) lets implement something similar in the next version... oh but we must differentiate, lets put a weather widget in it as standard. And widgets, they didnt have them originally and now they do as Android showed it was useful.
It just seems so one sided and the whole system needs a reform, its not Apples fault for making full use of the flawed laws as they shouldnt be like that anyway... I bet any other company would do the same as non are really 100% moral they just want to make money (and who doesnt) but that was the whole point of these laws but they are old and broken!.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada
do you have any evidence of that, as the wiki says it was december 2006 it was announced and launched in 2007. it also says no court case took place
so who is wrong? you or wiki? it's been on wiki unchanged for a while, and i'm sure many would have used that as reference and could have changed it if wrong
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/L...ially-Unveiled
this link here also points to a january 2007 launch, and shows pictures of the GUI which is different to IOS. i do remember in the flesh the phone didn't look as good as a phone with the prada name should have. the screen was also prone to scratching
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Agent
I linked it earlier,but it is good you reposted it again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CAT-THE-FIFTH
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unique
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada
do you have any evidence of that, as the wiki says it was december 2006 it was announced and launched in 2007. it also says no court case took place
so who is wrong? you or wiki? it's been on wiki unchanged for a while, and i'm sure many would have used that as reference and could have changed it if wrong
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/L...ially-Unveiled
this link here also points to a january 2007 launch, and shows pictures of the GUI which is different to IOS. i do remember in the flesh the phone didn't look as good as a phone with the prada name should have. the screen was also prone to scratching
Read the rest of the wiki mate :)
"LG Electronics has claimed the iPhone's design was copied from the LG Prada. Woo-Young Kwak, head of LG Mobile Handset R&D Center, said at a press conference, “We consider that Apple copied the Prada phone after the design was unveiled when it was presented in the iF Design Award and won the prize in September 2006.”[8]
LG later claimed that Apple stole both the ideas and concept of the Prada phone. A lawsuit by LG had been rumored prior to this announcement; [8] however, LG never followed through with it."
And no there wasnt a court case, there doesnt have to be a court case for LG to throw an email at Apple saying we are going to take you to court over smartphones unless you pay us X amount. It was released before the iPhone and announced beforehand aswell.
I did state the wrong date though, the prada was entered mid 2006 for the mobile device award and it won in september but I dont think that really matters as it is pretty simple, look at what Asus has done with the Nexus 7, designed and mass produced it in less than 3 months!.
The GUI is different yes but it is a smartphone with a capacitive screen, it was glass so scratching was going to be an issue and it didnt have gorilla glass as standard unlike the iphone but they were totally different pricing groups. The point I was making was that Apple didnt invent the first capacitive touch screen smartphone, their iPhone looks remarkably similar to the Prada and so its pretty easy to say that it was a design that would become industry standard, it was the natural evolution of phones/smartphones so it seems harsh to penalise Samsung for doing the same thing.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hicks12
Read the rest of the wiki mate :)
"LG Electronics has claimed the iPhone's design was copied from the LG Prada. Woo-Young Kwak, head of LG Mobile Handset R&D Center, said at a press conference, “We consider that Apple copied the Prada phone after the design was unveiled when it was presented in the iF Design Award and won the prize in September 2006.”[8]
LG later claimed that Apple stole both the ideas and concept of the Prada phone. A lawsuit by LG had been rumored prior to this announcement; [8] however, LG never followed through with it."
And no there wasnt a court case, there doesnt have to be a court case for LG to throw an email at Apple saying we are going to take you to court over smartphones unless you pay us X amount. It was released before the iPhone and announced beforehand aswell.
I did state the wrong date though, the prada was entered mid 2006 for the mobile device award and it won in september but I dont think that really matters as it is pretty simple, look at what Asus has done with the Nexus 7, designed and mass produced it in less than 3 months!.
The GUI is different yes but it is a smartphone with a capacitive screen, it was glass so scratching was going to be an issue and it didnt have gorilla glass as standard unlike the iphone but they were totally different pricing groups. The point I was making was that Apple didnt invent the first capacitive touch screen smartphone, their iPhone looks remarkably similar to the Prada and so its pretty easy to say that it was a design that would become industry standard, it was the natural evolution of phones/smartphones so it seems harsh to penalise Samsung for doing the same thing.
but apple as i'm sure you know, were working on the iphone for a long time. i think you are trying to suggest that it's just natural or coincidence that other people came up with similar rectangular phones, but the samsung case shows they copied the design. a good example is that the prada phone's GUI was completly different and even the stylings were different, whilst the samsung phone was clearly designed to look as similar as possible. even without all the evidence presented at court this was clearly apparent, the evidence such as internal emails just confirmed it
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hicks12
essentially Apple are saying Samsung copied because Samsung are selling a crap load :), market competition stifling at its finest. Apple think that the device is a copy because it is square with smooth corners and has an app launcher... news flash there have been app launchers for many many years and the device design is simply the best for mobile phones, its funny how Apple said how the Nokia lumia looks nothing like Apple and is good but it does... its a phone with pointy corners thats the only difference and of course its Windows OS which really is totally different.
.
Well said mate !! Every few months Samsung releases a new high end phone and not to mention the mid range and starting range phones. Samsung is trying to capture the market and dominate. Its doing a pretty good job at it, Apple on the other hand releases a new model phone every year which is iconic, but Samsung releases a cheaper or better alternative in a few months. Apple doesn't cater to the starting / mid range consumers, although although most of them want an iPhone lol.. used to be an iPhone user until I started using the galaxy note and I must say when I hold an iPhone now, I'm like WTF is this a smartphone?? Its tiny.
But there are many things I miss in iOS like user submitted apps on cydia and the easy to use operating system, more software updates.
Although Samsung always releases newer phones they fail to update or develop new software releases/ports. Like if you would upgrade ur galaxy note to ICS and then reset it, your phone will be bricked and there's no easy fix. The battery life of my note is way worse than the new ipad's battery life .its unbearable
Unless you have a galaxy nexus and get all the latest updates :-)
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Looks like the jurors were locals:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...d-designs.html
Quote:
Apple's headquarters is a mere 10 miles from the courthouse, and jurors were picked from the heart of Silicon Valley where Apple's late founder Steve Jobs is a revered technological pioneer.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
But Google is also headquartered in the Silicon Valley. Proximity to Apple's headquarters doesn't mean the jurors worked for Apple. In fact, it has been reported that an Apple employee in the list of potential juror ruled himself out, whereas a Google employee claimed he would be objective and had to be rejected by Apple's lawyers.
A few people have wondered about the phone the jury use. Well, I don't think it's that biased: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...-we-found-out/
I would say that it is a lot less to do about the fact that they are Americans, or located in close proximity of Apple's headquarters, but perhaps more to do with the fact that the jury are tech consumers aren't that tech enthusiasts. I've said it before, but US centric forums still lean towards Android in forum discussions, so nationality really can't be it IMO. But if we start finger pointing, Samsung produce 1/5th of South Koreas total exports, so they can also be accused of going soft on themselves despite the split decision.
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Seems like the jury may indeed have have rushed it as suspected.
This certainly isn't over.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Apple successfully win in court, arguing that Samsung products are just as good and are indistinguishable.
Consumers who paid twice the price for their Apple-branded goods read headlines & raise eyebrows.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
But Google is also headquartered in the Silicon Valley. Proximity to Apple's headquarters doesn't mean the jurors worked for Apple. In fact, it has been reported that an Apple employee in the list of potential juror ruled himself out, whereas a Google employee claimed he would be objective and had to be rejected by Apple's lawyers.
A few people have wondered about the phone the jury use. Well, I don't think it's that biased:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...-we-found-out/
Except,Samsung is not Google though and is Korean. Samsung is not located in Silicon Valley and Apple in its closing statement mentioned it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Lawyer
“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”
These people live and work in Silicon Valley(even if most of them are not in tech industry),now it makes even more sense why the Apple lawyers said the statement.
The jurors were exclusively talking about Samsung not Google. Do you think any of them would think Samsung=Google?? It was mentioned in this thread that there was no chance that jurors would be local and it seems this assumption this wrong. As mentioned by the jurors(read the thread),many of them lent on the only one who had patent experience meaning they skipped various pieces of evidence such as prior art since they were in a rush. These are all statements by jurors in the public domain.
Its hilarious that they even ignored the orders of the judge and they even awarded damages for things Samsung did not infringe on!
Quote:
Originally Posted by court officials
The foreman told a court representative that the jurors had reached a decision without needing the instructions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
"The amount of those damages must be adequate to compensate the patent holder for the infringement. A damages award should put the patent holder in approximately the financial position it would have been in had the infringement not occurred, but in no event may the damages award be less than a reasonable royalty. You should keep in mind that the damages you award are meant to compensate the patent holder and not to punish an infringer."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jury member
Apple v. Samsung juror: we "wanted to send a message"
Quote:
The jury appears to have awarded damages for the Galaxy Tab 10.1 LTE infringing — $219,694 worth — but didn't find that it had actually infringed anything....A similar inconsistency exists for the Intercept, for which they'd awarded Apple over $2 million
Intercept: "The jury found no direct infringement but did find inducement" for the '915 and '163 utility patents. If a device didn't infringe, it would be rather hard for a company to induce said non-existant infringement.
The last was overturned but one has to consider the competence of the jury.
Moreover,why the rush?? Billions of dollars were at stake here. The fact they made such crass errors,is hilarious. Surely,another hour checking what they signed off,would have made sense??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooNice
I would say that it is a lot less to do about the fact that they are Americans, or located in close proximity of Apple's headquarters, but perhaps more to do with the fact that the jury are tech consumers aren't that tech enthusiasts. I've said it before, but US centric forums still lean towards Android in forum discussions, so nationality really can't be it IMO. But if we start finger pointing, Samsung produce 1/5th of South Koreas total exports, so they can also be accused of going soft on themselves despite the split decision.
Maybe,but OTH the damages were puny for both companies and like you said Samsung also did not escape with zero damages or infringements either.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Quote:
Originally Posted by
directhex
Apple successfully win in court, arguing that Samsung products are just as good and are indistinguishable.
Consumers who paid twice the price for their Apple-branded goods read headlines & raise eyebrows.
As noted in that blog post,I mentioned earlier!!:p
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I find this all laughable.
Apple is suing companies left right and center because they claim they they are copying their designs or tech.
so lets compare:
Worlds first commercially available MP3 player was the MPman brought out by SaeHan Information Systems in March 1998 the apple ipod did not come out until 2001 by which time there were quite a few mp3 players on the market and some of them bear a striking resemblance to the first ipods. So apple "borrowed" the tech and design form other companies.
Microsoft released the first tablet pc in 2000 a full 10 years before apple released the ipad, again using tech and designs "borrowed" from others.
Apple released the iphone in 2007 again years after other companies had already released smartphones and yet again "borrowing" tech from the earlier pioneers.
Basically apple had never had an original idea on anything they sell, sure they may improve other peoples tech but they never came up with the ideas themselves all they did is repackage what was already out there.
So the biggest culprit of copying others is by far Apple.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
TBF,Steve Jobs did admit copying was fine himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Hypocritical plain and simple; one rule if it suits them, another if it doesn't.
Plenty of companies manage fine even without any patenting, it just involves making a better quality product than your competitors for a competitive price. Obviously Apple can't manage this so they resort to incredible amounts of marketing bull and lawyers...
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I will always give credit to Apple in one area, marketing as they are the kings of marketing you could give them a turd and they would put it in a polished box and slap their logo on it and market it to the cows come home and it will sell by the millions. They arent a company that designs on merit, they take existing designs and improve upon them (of course this is why a 2000 tablet is worse than the 2010 tablets...thanks arm :) ) the markets may have been small but Apple market it so well that it actually becomes popular! Its great overall but Apple seem to think that since they made it more popular than before that they pioneered it all and deserve 100% of the market, but thats just silly and ignorant.
@Unique Yes you got what I meant, simply that people can be working on a product can end up with the same thing and thats life which is why Apple and LG had smartphones with capacitive touch around the same time within the year (of course they could have copied but i doubt it... still there were smartphones before this), the GUI wasnt that different really as there are alot of places where they are similar/same, but thats the problem with this trial they seem to concentrate on making it look as if samsung copied the whole thing where as the majority is very different. The powerpoint presentation of how Samsung could improve their skin vs Apples shouldnt be seen as copying, its simply evaluating the market, they are looking at ways to improve and so checking out the competition and making something better will obviously be the simple approach.
Im not a fan of touchwiz but I dont think its $1billion worth of stolen/copied designs, in some aspects its similar but in alot of ways its different, I dont count icons as really those are generic and you can hardly change iconic designs!. Personally I think Samsung should just kill off TW and launch all those phones as Google AOSP like stock by Google pretty much as CyanogenMod guys do which is the best :D.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
Statement from Google:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19389732
Quote:
Google released its statement late on Sunday in the US.
"The court of appeals will review both infringement and the validity of the patent claims," it said.
"Most of these don't relate to the core Android operating system, and several are being re-examined by the US Patent Office.
"The mobile industry is moving fast and all players - including newcomers - are building upon ideas that have been around for decades. We work with our partners to give consumers innovative and affordable products, and we don't want anything to limit that."
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...end-a-message/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jury Foreman
Hogan, a 67-year-old electrical engineer who lives in San Jose, said he was influenced in part by his own experience acquiring a patent. By the end of the first day of deliberations, he said he decided that Samsung's prior art arguments didn't hold up.
"I was thinking about the patents, and thought, 'If this were my patent, could I defend it?'" Hogan recalled. "Once I answered that question as yes, it changed how I looked at things."
The jury "wanted to send a message to the industry at large that patent infringing is not the right thing to do, not just Samsung," Hogan told the newspaper. "We felt like we were 100 percent fair, but we wanted something more than a slap on the wrist."
Another juror, Manuel Ilagan, confirmed to CNET that Hogan's influence on the jury was significant. "He had experience," said Ilagan. "He owned patents himself...so he took us through his experience. After that it was easier."
Hopelessly contaminated jury.
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Re: Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury
I don't like the sound of this:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08...o-bid-for-pate
Quote:
Meanwhile the Wall Street Journal has reported that many of the world's biggest technology companies, including Samsung, Apple and Google, have formed a consortium to bid for Kodak's digital imaging patents.
Yay!! More fodder for the patent wars.
Please,can the US government step in and stop these companies,I doubt they can though!! :(
