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Thread: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    ...but I really am today. Here's the story in case anyone missed it:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19419395

    Here's a copy of the email I just sent to Damian Green:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    To: Mr Damian Green, Immigration Minister

    Dear Mr Green,

    I write in relation to today's extraordinary announcement by the UK Border Agency that they would be revoking with immediate effect London Metropolitan University's licence to recruit non-EU international students.

    I have no connection with London Metropolitan University, and I do not work in the education sector. I would even say that I broadly support a well managed reduction in net immigration to this country. However, the way in which this case has been handled frankly beggars belief.

    To justify this decision, UKBA published the results of an audit which found that of 101 indicidual student cases reviewed, 26 were found to have no right to remain in the country. 75 of them, or very nearly three-quarters, evidently did. I can understand why it might be felt necessary to revoke the university's licence to recruit international students in the future. What I cannot understand is why existing foreign students of the university must be prevented from completing their qualifications at the institution they have studied at for one or more years already, where they are presumably settled in to their courses, familiar with their tutors and lecturers, and where they have presumably made suitable housing arrangements. This is not only a gross overreaction, it is a case of collective punishment befitting a tinpot dictatorship, not a first-world democracy.

    The announcement of a 'Task Force' to help the students affected is an inadequate and frankly pathetic gesture, unless of course they are going to guarantee another university place (and housing and resettlement expenses for anyone that requires such) to every single student who came here in good faith and complied with the terms of their visa?

    I would urge you, Sir, to review and revise this decision as soon as possible. If you cannot or will not do that, then I would ask you to review your position, because if you think that this is an acceptable way to treat people who have come here as invited guests of our country, and who have spent in most cases tens of thousands of pounds into our economy, you are clearly not fit to hold public office.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Yours Sincerely,
    If any of you want to make your displeasure felt (and you should, if you've any sense of common decency) the address is:

    ministerforimmigration@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    So instead of doing an audit and making sure the university fixes their problems,they make sure all the legitimate students also get screwed.

    So,will the affected students get refunds for the full cost of their courses?? After all many might have had to take loans(or their families have had to do so) to study abroad. It can be a big economic burden for the people affected.

    OTH,if the MPs passing the motions have not had to endure economic hardships themselves,how would they relate to it TBH??

    Of course with the cut in funding to universities,many have had to look to foreign students to plug the gap. However,competition is intense in the international education market,so any doubts legitimate students can complete their courses in a UK university,would not be good for the country. People might just go elsewhere like the US and Australia.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 30-08-2012 at 10:34 PM.

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    Editable... jimbouk's Avatar
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    Something needed to be done to stop the uni handing out visas like lollipops, but this is a massive overreaction. Maybe name and shame the uni more and give them a (financial?) slap on the wrist, but work with them to identify and remove those not staying in education. I know they warned them previously, but this is punishing the wrong people. I hope they back down (and apologies, though I can't see that actually happening).

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbouk View Post
    Something needed to be done to stop the uni handing out visas like lollipops
    Its the UK government via the UK Border Agency which hands out visas,not universities. If people are not having valid visas,it should be the UK Border Agency going after them - that is sort of their job,right??

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    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    I've been on the other side of this as a foreign student in the US. Some schools use students as a cash cow, ignoring and not following immigration rules, knowing full well that it's the students who suffer when they screw up and not them. Stopping the school from exploiting students should be the goal, and while this achieves it in the long term, it is unfortunate that many students will suffer along the way.

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    The Tier 4 stuff is very, very strict. We are regularly warned about it at work.

    My thoughts are largely the same Rave. Revoke the universities licence if they are failing the Tier 4 requirements and if needed, go after the students which are breaking their terms of VISA.
    But the genuine ones? I don't get it.
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  8. #7
    OilSheikh
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    The UKBA got strict ( last year ? ) and shut down all dodgy colleges which existed in name only where their students never attended. These colleges handed out student visas to foreign students for £x,000 , who came to the UK on student visas primarily to work. The money obviosuly went to the fat cat or group of fat cats running the colleges! Students are allowed to work 20 hrs. / week but these students worked full-time at self-employed small businesses/shops and got paid for full-time work. Their employer just showed on their payslip that they work part-time.
    These students then got married, bringing their wives/husbands from abroad and then stayed in the UK on their dodgy student visas for 10 years and then applied for indefinite leave to remain / British citizenships which they got and then they brought their parents, siblings, uncles, aunts, etc. to the UK. Anyone who was elderly in the family immediately started claiming benefits.

    The whole picture is very widespread and has damaged the UK economy for quite sometime.

    Following UKBA's college shutdown operations, all unis were told to log attendance records ( when students use their ID cards to swipe in to campuses ). Met uni should have been able to immediately show the UKBA records of all foreign student's attendances, which they could not. It IS the university's fault and all genuine foreign students who studied there should sue the uni.

    I have a mate on student visa who graduated with me from a proper uni and then he joined a dodgy college as he wanted to stay in the UK to work. After his dodgy college got closed down, he took admission in a proper uni and nw spends 2 hrs. travelling back and forth everyday.

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    Many students do come to the UK in good faith to study, and invest quite a lot of money in doing so (costs of tuition for overseas student is sky high, cost of visa has shot up over the years and while this applies to other British students, cost of living is not exactly low). My immediate thought are with students from countries with generally lower income level and requiring a greater sacrifice on the part of the parents. But couldn't this also include students from, say, the US (unless they made sure it didn't), and if so I wonder what the diplomats will have to say about it.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    I'm slightly ashamed that a respected UK academic institution should have got itself into this situation. As OilSheikh says, last year many bogus academic institutions were closed down for sponsoring students who weren't really students, so the writing was on the wall. While the story focuses on the sensationalist aspects, I doubt that thould have come out of the blue. All academic institutions were audited, so why didn't LMU get it's act together?

    Sadly not the first time an academic institution has been guilty of poor judgement - look at the LSE/Libya fiasco that surface last year.

    I agree with C-the-fifth hat about the ultimate responsibility being the UKBA's, but they rely on the good faith (and rigorous procedures) of the sponsoring institutions, who they should be able to trust, through the procedures they do (or in this case apparently) do not.

    I do have some sympathy for those genuine students who are facing an uncertain future. I hope the institution that sponsored them (LMU) can get its act together and sort it.
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    And yet the from whatever angle you approach it....it's still all about the money!!

    We can all eulogise about semantics............sadly we can't justify the human condition of greed and avarice unless we are NOT part of it?........let's take the discussion from that premise shall we?

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    At the end of the day, if an instituion continues to flout the rules, a line must be drawn. What if you continue to speed on the road? there's only so many speed awareness courses and points the authorities can dish out before they deem it unacceptable.

    London Met should have it's license taken away, but the students with correct and genuine visas and doing their courses SHOULD remain and finish their courses. This unfortuanately is due to the rigid nature of the Government/ UKBA. They like black and white and not taking into consideration the grey areas
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    OilSheikh
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    60 Days isn't enough time. UKBA have given the students 60 days to find a new uni. Admissions just finished in all unis and there are no places available. How the hell can these students expect to find a uni in 60 days ?

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    Reactions from foreign students at the university:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19422234

    A UK degree is renowned and accepted worldwide - that's why I applied. Many universities elsewhere won't accept me at such a late stage.

    But the UKBA's decision is not a good sign - the UK changed their immigration rules considerably last year which lead to many of people deciding not to study in the UK.

    This decision sends a message to the international community that international students are not welcome.
    Hilarious how the UKBA gets away scot-free,in all of this.

    The way this has been handled is an absolute disaster for UK universities. If genuine students are put off from studying in the UK,it could lead to big problems.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 01-09-2012 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    Disgraceful behaviour, why punish those who have done nothing wrong??

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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    The obvious solution to this is to prevent/restrict the number of visas to new applicants only. By all means investigate current students in order to try and eliminate the fraudulent cases but the report basically admits that 75% are legitimate and the result of this is basically to punish those.

    The longer-term result of this is that it is highly likely the institution will close, depriving both foreign and domestic students. Universities get significantly more income per head for a foreign student than an EU/UK student. Eliminating this income stream will quickly make the institution non-viable

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: London Metropolitan Uni - it's not often that I'm ashamed to be British...

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Reactions from foreign students at the university:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19422234



    Hilarious how the UKBA gets away scot-free,in all of this.

    The way this has been handled is an absolute disaster for UK universities. If genuine students are put off from studying in the UK,it could lead to big problems.
    No it isn't. It may be a disaster for LMU, who failed to get its act together. It won't put genuine students off applying for other Universities that do have rigorous procedures for ensuring that only genuine students are sponsored for study visas.

    If LMU does get its act together in time, my guess would be that those genuine students will have their visas renewed.
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