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Thread: The Reshuffle

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    The Reshuffle

    So we have Jeremy Hunt as the health secretary. The guy who believes magic water works, had an unbelievably dodgy role in the BSkyB fiasco (which he was in charge of) and was investigated by the Parliamentary Commissioner on expenses and found in breach of the rules.

    And he was just put in charge of one of the biggest public health services in the world. Brilliant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ... was investigated by the Parliamentary Commissioner on expenses and found in breach of the rules. ...
    To be fair, if that was a disqualification for holding a ministerial post we wouldn't have a cabinet at all, would we?

    I liked the comment in my twitter feed along the lines of "It's funny how we can have a cabinet reshuffle - almost like none of them have any expertise in their jobs...",although it kind of misses the point of a ministerial portfolio. Ultimately it's not the job of a minister to actually know anything about their portfolio in advance - it's their job to be intelligent and reasonable enough to weigh up the evidence their civil servants provide for them and make a rational, informed decision. Sadly, the "informed" and "rational" bits tend to rather stump most politicians...

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    To be fair, if that was a disqualification for holding a ministerial post we wouldn't have a cabinet at all, would we?
    Which I think sadly, sums up the situation of our government well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    And who argued for the abolition of the NHS all of 3 years ago...

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    It's the only job in the country where you can have bugger all experience or qualifications in what you are actually managing, get away with it and get paid lots of cash too.

    Oh wait then there are bankers.
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    Re: The Reshuffle

    You can't win at cards if you have a bad hand; it doesn't matter how many times you reshuffle . It's a five knuckle reshuffle.
    Last edited by santa claus; 05-09-2012 at 01:05 AM.

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    So we have Jeremy Hunt as the health secretary. The guy who believes magic water works, ....

    And he was just put in charge of one of the biggest public health services in the world. Brilliant.
    Does he? Or is that merely a media distortion of what he said?

    (Part of) what he said was ....

    .... Homeopathic care is enormously valued by thousands of people and in an NHS that the Government repeatedly tells us is "patient-led" it ought to be available where a doctor and patient believe that a homeopathic treatment may be of benefit to the patient.
    I've added the bit in red.

    The placebo effect is well-known. So .... if the patient believes homeopathy is effective, and if the doctor even just believes that the placebo effect justifies the "treatment", then it may well be the case that the patient benefits.

    Did Hunt actually say he believes "magic water" works, or merely that it's for doctors and patients to establish if it's a beneficial treatment, not a politician. Because on that latter point at the very least, I agree with him.

    The full letter that that quote comes from is attached at the end of this post, so the full context can be seen.



    As for the issue with Leveson, Hunt didn't ask for the media job, but was given it after Vince Cable stepped so publicly on his own, erm, appendage.

    Someone had to take the job, and as CMS secretary, Hunt was the obvious candidate. Second, what politician didn't have a view on Murdoch and NewsCorp? Just about anyone was going to have had a view, and as politicians love cameras, most of them will have expressed it if a passing camera wandered anywhere near them.

    And what did Hunt do when actually presented with the responsibility for decisions? He sought the advice of the independent regulators in every case, and acted in accordance with their advice, even when it directly contradicted the position he'd previously expressed.

    So what did he do that was wrong?

    If he'd had responsibility for the BSkyB bid and expressed a favourable opinion (or, like Cable, a negative one), he would be in the wrong. But when he expressed opinions, the actual decisions were nothing to do with him, and never would have been if Cable had either had the decency to not pre-judge, or the brains to not get caught mouthing off about it.




    Attachment .... Hunt's full letter on homeopathy

    Thank you very much for your letter regarding EDM 1240 in support of Homeopathic Hospitals. I appreciate that you are disappointed that I added my name to this motion, and read your comments on this issue with interest.

    I understand that it is your view that homeopathy is not effective, and therefore that people should not be encouraged to use it as a treatment. However I am afraid that I have to disagree with you on this issue. Homeopathic care is enormously valued by thousands of people and in an NHS that the Government repeatedly tells us is "patient-led" it ought to be available where a doctor and patient believe that a homeopathic treatment may be of benefit to the patient.

    I am grateful to you for taking the time to write with your concerns. I realise that my answer will be a disappointing one for you, but I hope that the letter helps to clarify my view.

    Yours sincerely,

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    stolen from another site, but sums it all up well -

    The new Lord Chancellor doesn't have a law degree. The new Health Secretary is pro-homeopathy and has said publicly that the NHS should be dismantled. The new minister for Culture, Media, Sport, Equality and Women is against equal marriage. The new Environment Secretary is a climate-change denier. The new Minister for Justice is in favour of people being able to discriminate against gays on the grounds of religion.
    ~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley




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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post

    The placebo effect is well-known. So .... if the patient believes homeopathy is effective, and if the doctor even just believes that the placebo effect justifies the "treatment", then it may well be the case that the patient benefits.

    Did Hunt actually say he believes "magic water" works, or merely that it's for doctors and patients to establish if it's a beneficial treatment, not a politician. Because on that latter point at the very least, I agree with him.
    That's a fair point with the placebo effect.

    If that's the case though I'm a little unsure on why we spend millions a year on it and have 4 'homoeopathic hospitals'. I suppose we would need figures from both sides of having and not having them though to make a conclusion.

    Maybe I've fell a bit foul of the press here - plenty of places are reporting he believes in homoeopathic remedies, but only quote the signed motion.

    Part of me wants to believe that he's smart enough to see it as a way of freeing up beds / keeping the medicine sections of the NHS for those that really needed it, but I'm a bit jaded these days

    Either way, it's bad 'science'. I'm not sure I like it being in the NHS at all, but I admit I'm a bit of a hard nut when it comes to things like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    I dont think the NHS should fork out for herbal nonsense.

    My Aunt was diagnosed with congested arteries and offered an op to sort it, she declined on the basis that herbal remedies would sort it out.

    12 months later she died and my Uncle requested a post mortem, cause of death was congested arteries.

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    Last edited by pctech2012; 05-09-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    .... I suppose we would need figures from both sides of having and not having them though to make a conclusion.
    Exactly. The reason for spending £4m (if that's what we spend) may be that it's a lot cheaper than treating in other ways that are no more efficacious.

    If we're looking at unnecessary spending, though, I wonder what it costs the NHS for people to attend a GP with a headache or a cold, only to be prescribed an aspirin (or tylenol, paracetamol, codeine, whatever), or a "Nightnurse" equivalent.

    On the other hand, not every headache or cold is just a headache or cold.

    My guess is that patient reassurance, and stress reduction, is part of the story. That "well-being" is a broad concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ....

    Either way, it's bad 'science'. I'm not sure I like it being in the NHS at all, but I admit I'm a bit of a hard nut when it comes to things like this.
    Well, dubious science, at least.

    From what I can make of it, studies have certainly been unable to confirm that it works, while being unable to categorically confirm it does not have an effect.

    Me? I'm in the sceptical camp. I doubt it works, and I struggle to see how it can, BUT will cheerfully admit I don't know enough to be qualified to judge, or to be honest, care enough to spend much time researching.

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by pctech2012 View Post
    I dont think the NHS should fork out for herbal nonsense.

    My Aunt was diagnosed with congested arteries and offered an op to sort it, she declined on the basis that herbal remedies would sort it out.

    12 months later she died and my Uncle requested a post mortem, cause of death was congested arteries.

    Snake oil merchants 1 decent people 0
    Some herbal treatments work, and sometimes, work far better than modern pharmacology does, with far fewer harmful side-effects.

    But it's daft to suggest that herbal treatments will, or possibly could, cure everything. Nor can modern medicine or surgery.

    The fault, if that's the right word, lies with your aunt. She was offered both, and it certainly appears, chose wrong. Or .... she got a year extra she might not have got, had she died during the op.

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    Re: The Reshuffle

    She's the worst of it in my view.


    As for Jeremy 'unt and his magic water nonsense, if it's going to be an option after diagnosis or consultation, then it shouldn't be on the NHS. Nothing that isn't proven (if there's a possibility it does work, then show it, then include it, not before) should be prescribed by doctors or available through the NHS. Not only for the sake of the patient, but to spare the NHS liability for when it doesn't work too.

    "Well, you could have the tried and tested procedure, along with the relevant medication and after-care, or you could try your luck with some 'fairy-tear' soaked compost pills and a course of watered down vinegar blessed by a hermit, if you don't trust years of medical research and proven practise."
    "I'll take the fairy-tears and hermit juice, please."
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    Re: The Reshuffle

    I have no qualms with the NHS doling out magic water to patients, provided it is literally tap water. One of the biggest problem the NHS faces is stupid people who demand a quick fix when all they really need is a couple of days in bed and plenty of fruit.

    I don't want my taxes going towards the NHS wasting money on 'accredited' homeopathic solutions that involve hammers and horse-hairs. Treating people with placebo with something that is essentially free would be great, the downside is that we'll likely have to pay for it and that's where I draw the line. In many cases the homeopathic remedy will probably cost more than a pack of paracetamol (less than 20 pence in Boots).

    As for the scientific basis of homeopathy, it is bunk. Just read the introduction on Wikipedia and make your mind up for yourself. Any physicist or chemist worth their (ahem) salt will tell you it's utter twaddle. Seriously, there is no 'dubious' science about it, it's quackery.

    In terms of the effects, placebo is well documented and is used all over medicine - in many cases to complement existing treatments e.g. the colour of pills is known to make a difference. We have no idea why it works, save that tricking the brain ('belief', you might call it) is an incredibly potent way of dealing with problems.
    Last edited by Whiternoise; 11-09-2012 at 03:48 PM.

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    Re: The Reshuffle


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    Re: The Reshuffle

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjo View Post
    She's the worst of it in my view.

    While she certainly seems to be a hateful little troll, it bothers me more that there exists a government position 'Minister for Equality'.

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