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Thread: So Jesus took a wife

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    Senior Member MaddAussie's Avatar
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    So Jesus took a wife

    Well according to this item on the BBC

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19645273

    Which reports that the fragment fragment of a papyrus parchment had the following words on it:

    "Jesus said to them, 'my wife'"
    A little further down is the comment bellow

    Jim West, a professor and Baptist pastor in Tennessee, said: "A statement on a papyrus fragment isn't proof of anything. It's nothing more than a statement 'in thin air', without substantial context."
    Oh how ironic!


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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    I thought there where a bunch of chronicals which suggested jesus got married?

    It's just those ones obviously aren't true. The bible has to make space for all the fun stuff in Leviticus after all!

    Leviticus 11:10 - No shellfish, regrettably most Christians ignore this, if they didn't the price of lobster might be reasonable.
    Leviticus 19:19 - Blended fabrics (so pretty much everything people buy)
    Leviticus 19:27 - Hair Cuts / Shaving
    Leviticus 19:28 - No tattoos (I always find it funny when in the US and you see a I Heart Jesus tattoo)

    The bible is all about picking and choosing, that after is all is the great thing about god, he has all the same bigotry and hatred you do, whilst allowing all the hypocrascy you'd ever want!
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    So the royal bloodline conspiracy theory could be true then?
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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    I thought there where a bunch of chronicals which suggested jesus got married?

    It's just those ones obviously aren't true. The bible has to make space for all the fun stuff in Leviticus after all!

    Leviticus 11:10 - No shellfish, regrettably most Christians ignore this, if they didn't the price of lobster might be reasonable.
    Leviticus 19:19 - Blended fabrics (so pretty much everything people buy)
    Leviticus 19:27 - Hair Cuts / Shaving
    Leviticus 19:28 - No tattoos (I always find it funny when in the US and you see a I Heart Jesus tattoo)

    The bible is all about picking and choosing, that after is all is the great thing about god, he has all the same bigotry and hatred you do, whilst allowing all the hypocrascy you'd ever want!
    Leviticus is Old Testament, which is pre-Christianity, and is the basis for Jewish rules. The majority are based on public health (shellfish in contaminated water in a hot country, for example)

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum View Post
    So the royal bloodline conspiracy theory could be true then?
    Dan Brown said so, so it must be true.
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by MaddAussie View Post

    Oh how ironic!
    Well not really - the point is there is no substantial context for that statement, while the documents that make up the bible (assuming that's what you find ironic) do have substantial context. That doesn't mean it's not true, or at least an authentic statement that is essentially saying that an early Christian thought that Jesus had a wife.

    I don't think it changes anything significant though, whether Jesus had a wife or not.

    Or is the fact that there is some debate over sources of Christian text surprising to you?

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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Given that in the period Jesus was alive you were very much expected to be married this seems a bit of a no brainer. I also can't understand why it's difficult to accept given it doesn't magically invalidate anyone's beliefs (and since the church(s) promote marriage..).
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Leviticus is Old Testament, which is pre-Christianity, and is the basis for Jewish rules. The majority are based on public health (shellfish in contaminated water in a hot country, for example)
    You miss my point.

    The bible is just a collection, most of it contradicts itself.

    There are a few chronicals which suggest Jesus was not an only child (in fact the virgin birth thing is at best dubious). There are some which suggest he had a wife.

    These again are not new. Thigns like the dead sea scrolls have shown that you can have something which 'checks out' to be genuine, but if it doesn't tell the messages people want, they simply label it herassy
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    These again are not new. Thigns like the dead sea scrolls have shown that you can have something which 'checks out' to be genuine, but if it doesn't tell the messages people want, they simply label it herassy
    I don't think 'they' do (who ever 'they' are). I mean, to some extend it's human nature to disagree with something that doesn't agree with your own viewpoint, but the fact that the people don't agree on one absolute translation/compilation of the bible shouldn't be a surprise, nor does it have any bearing on faith.

    An educated scholar would disagree with your assertion that most of the bible contradicts itself, for example, but you're welcome to form your own opinion of it if you've examined it in detail yourself.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    An educated scholar would disagree with your assertion that most of the bible contradicts itself, for example, but you're welcome to form your own opinion of it if you've examined it in detail yourself.
    Well thats just a poor statement.

    Implying that only educated scholars would know it doesn't contradict.

    It damn well does, people have to try and explain away as best as they can the 'problems'. But what you've done is a great example of how your world view can't be influenced by problematic facts.

    I would say that to think educated scholars would agree, is foolish. I'm reminded of the joke about Keynes.
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    My understanding is that this is a fragment of a discussion between 2nd century Christians, regarding the possibility of Jesus having a wife. It isn't actually evidence that he was or was not married, nor does it lend any credence to the idea that he actually might have been a real person.

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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    I thought there where a bunch of chronicals which suggested jesus got married?

    It's just those ones obviously aren't true. The bible has to make space for all the fun stuff in Leviticus after all!

    Leviticus 11:10 - No shellfish, regrettably most Christians ignore this, if they didn't the price of lobster might be reasonable.
    Leviticus 19:19 - Blended fabrics (so pretty much everything people buy)
    Leviticus 19:27 - Hair Cuts / Shaving
    Leviticus 19:28 - No tattoos (I always find it funny when in the US and you see a I Heart Jesus tattoo)

    The bible is all about picking and choosing, that after is all is the great thing about god, he has all the same bigotry and hatred you do, whilst allowing all the hypocrascy you'd ever want!
    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Leviticus is Old Testament, which is pre-Christianity, and is the basis for Jewish rules. The majority are based on public health (shellfish in contaminated water in a hot country, for example)



    Dan Brown said so, so it must be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    You miss my point.

    The bible is just a collection, most of it contradicts itself.

    There are a few chronicals which suggest Jesus was not an only child (in fact the virgin birth thing is at best dubious). There are some which suggest he had a wife.

    These again are not new. Thigns like the dead sea scrolls have shown that you can have something which 'checks out' to be genuine, but if it doesn't tell the messages people want, they simply label it herassy
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Well thats just a poor statement.

    Implying that only educated scholars would know it doesn't contradict.

    It damn well does, people have to try and explain away as best as they can the 'problems'. But what you've done is a great example of how your world view can't be influenced by problematic facts.

    I would say that to think educated scholars would agree, is foolish. I'm reminded of the joke about Keynes.

    The bible itself says Jesus had brothers. It makes no secret of it. They came after him though - it is clear on that.

    The Jewish Law in the Old Testament has the main purpose to show God's people they're not good enough, they can't keep God's standard. They keep having to go through the routine of sacrifices depending on the substitutionary death in their place.

    It also shows the nations around them they're living differently. Pety rules like not having 2 different fabrics woven in their clothes, hair at the sides of the head untrimmed etc have no function other than to make the people stand out, and why are they different - because they worship God.

    The OT law highlights to God's people their need for a better saviour, a better sacrifice, once for all time. ie Christ. Paul extrapolates the explanation throughout the books of the letters to the Romans, Hebrews and most of the other New Testament letters. Christians are no longer under the Old Testament law, we are free to approach God directly through Christ, and not bound by its conditions.

    All the sacrifices of the Old Testament did nothing to change the hearts of the people. Their problem was within, they needed (in the bible's words) a new heart, a new spirit. That change is not one man can give himself, nor by sacrificing animals. The fulfillment of the Old Testament system is the death Jesus on the cross. His resurrection is the proof the job is done, the price is paid, and assurance of the life to come for the person trusting in Him.

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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    My understanding is that this is a fragment of a discussion between 2nd century Christians, regarding the possibility of Jesus having a wife. It isn't actually evidence that he was or was not married, nor does it lend any credence to the idea that he actually might have been a real person.
    Thanks for the simple, honest take on this. One thing though, it does add credence to the idea, it just doesn't prove the fact. This based simply on the fact that the more talk you have about something, especially when the talk implies the importance of historical facts to the people talking, then the more credence there is that the subject in question existed. It doesn't prove it, but it adds weight to the notion. Not that the existence of Jesus is seriously disputed. All mainstream ancient historians are in agreement on the matter.
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    My understanding is that this is a fragment of a discussion between 2nd century Christians, regarding the possibility of Jesus having a wife. It isn't actually evidence that he was or was not married, nor does it lend any credence to the idea that he actually might have been a real person.
    Thanks for the simple, honest take on this. One thing though, it does add credence to the idea, it just doesn't prove the fact. This based simply on the fact that the more talk you have about something, especially when the talk implies the importance of historical facts to the people talking, then the more credence there is that the subject in question existed. It doesn't prove it, but it adds weight to the notion. Not that the existence of Jesus is seriously disputed. All mainstream ancient historians are in agreement on the matter.

    In general though, with regards discussions like this thread, it always surprises me how easily people think that Christianity has no historical or reasonable basis. I often wonder how one squares the ideas that Christianity is simplistic and obviously flawed historically and reasonably, with the fact that many intelligent, well-educated, even scientific individuals, world-class individuals, who happily and thoroughly embrace Christianity?

    There may be arguments over the existence of God, questions to do with suffering, pain, morality etc. but the idea that the belief in God/the existence of Christ/the historicity of Christianity and the Gospels/the integrity of the Bible is wholly irrational (and screamingly obvious in its irrationality/fallacy) is simply not a serious option. Either that or you have otherwise very intelligent, reasoned, well-balanced people who are happy to embrace and commit their lives to what is 'obviously' nonsense.
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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    You miss my point.

    The bible is just a collection, most of it contradicts itself.
    Can you give examples of where you're unhappy with its consistency?

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    Re: So Jesus took a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Can you give examples of where you're unhappy with its consistency?
    /sits and waits... patiently..... with some trepidation at the thought of TheAnimus with a pdf of The Bible (no idea which one... there are a few versions it seems) and ControlF in heavy action

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