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Thread: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    So the figures have been released from spring this year that show sales of petrol and diesel fell quite a bit (~10%):

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19810276

    To the point where the AA are commenting on how it's not accounted for by more fuel efficient cars.

    What I don't get is why this is seen as a negative thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by bbc
    The AA said the slump was the fault of the fuel industry - which it accused of "trying to squeeze more money out of shrinking customer demand".
    Fault? Accused? Surely it's a good thing that fossil fuel usage is going down? It's better for the environment, possibly better for our health, and reducing demand means prices should be lower for those who do still use petrol/diesel.

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    So the figures have been released from spring this year that show sales of petrol and diesel fell quite a bit (~10%):

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19810276

    To the point where the AA are commenting on how it's not accounted for by more fuel efficient cars.

    What I don't get is why this is seen as a negative thing?


    Fault? Accused? Surely it's a good thing that fossil fuel usage is going down? It's better for the environment, possibly better for our health, and reducing demand means prices should be lower for those who do still use petrol/diesel.
    I think the Automobile Association is generally more pro-car than pro-environment.

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Frankly, it's just part of the natural wobble. It'll keep happening repeatedly in a regular cycle now - basically the oil companies will push crude prices up to the point were people decide it's too expensive to use their cars, they'll buy less fuel, the lower demand will lead to prices dropping, people will get back in their cars, buy more fuel, and the prices will start pushing up again. Each fall back won't drop as far as the previous one, so the prices will continue to tend up, but they'll wobble up and down around an upward trend.

    I really don't get why people are still running cars rather than finding alternative ways to either get around or do the tasks they require. I just don't see how car ownership can be economically viable for anyone anymore. I mean, I remember when fuel was around £1.50 a gallon, now it's pushing towards £1.50 a litre. And it was only 3 years ago that there was the massive backlash about fuel jumping to more than £1 a litre, now it's aorund 40% more expensive but people are still buying

    But yes, this is a cycle we will see repeatedly from now on. Time to get on those bikes, people

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    I think the Automobile Association is generally more pro-car than pro-environment.
    Sure, but this is better for drivers too isn't it? Less demand means cheaper fuel for the rest of us, and if it's due to falling use then less cars on the road also means nicer/quicker journeys for the rest of us.

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Less demand means cheaper fuel for the rest of us, and if it's due to falling use then less cars on the road also means nicer/quicker journeys for the rest of us.
    Well, less cars on the road is bad for the AA as that's less people to charge insane amounts of money for breakdown cover. And higher fuel prices is also bad for the AA, as their main "product" involves driving large, inefficient vehicles long distances.

    And as I said above, it's cyclical - prices will not just go back up, but increase beyond the previous high, and when they drop back they won't drop as low.

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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    I have to say I'm torn.

    I didn't learn to drive until I was 30 so I know I can exist without a car but it greatly depends on where you live and whether or not you have a decent infrastructure in place. I spent most of my life up to my mid 20s living within easy walking distance of a decent (timely, clean, not particularly overcrowded) bus and train service and city centre but where I live now is much more of a PITA (and it's still suburbia) and a car suits me much better. I'm lucky in that I could, within reason, chose where to live but I'm not convinced everyone else has such an easy choice of location.

    It's mostly about convenience and time for me - walking and cycling may be a lot cheaper and healthier (and lord knows I could use some regular exercise) but it typically takes a lot longer to get there. Same goes for public transport to a very large degree where I live now - the bus service is infrequent and does not appear to keep to anything like the published timetable, the nearest train station is only 2 or 3 miles away but it's on a slow line and very overcrowded during peak times. So unless I'm going a relatively long distance where I can switch onto a faster line, or going into central London where it's a complete PITA to use a car (the M25 is a PITA pretty much 24x7 now), it's just a lot quicker and easier to drive...

    And - depending on traffic obviously - it's simply a lot more pleasurable to take the car than play sardines on a train that looks and smells like it's been used as a lavatory. Unless the traffic is horrendous I can drive there in less time, sitting in a comfortable, friendly environment of my choosing, listening to music or whatever... And while I know the financial argument isn't great in reality, the visible / short term financial outlay of a car journey is usually less than the equivalent journey by public transport.

    The financial argument for running a car really isn't great though - if I add up the cost of the car itself, insurance, tax, MOT, servicing, tyres and fuel I could get a lot of buses / taxis / trains for the same money.

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    Funking Prink! Raz316's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Of that whole article, this bit ***sed me off the most

    However, petrol prices slumped more than 10p a litre - from the record of 142.48p a litre in mid-April to the low-point of 131.19p
    I mean, only £1.31 a litre?! They may as well give it away!!

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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    It is back at £1.40 woo. I think that car offers people an autonomy that no other modes of transport can at present. Especially families and those not living in central London. Look at rail prices? Look at the underground prices? look at bus fares?

    Sure people can cycle but there is a risk of injury cycling. How many have had accidents involving a motor vehicle? Our culture is not one where the cyclist is part of the road. Yes more and more are getting on their bikes but this is aggravating already very congested and time strapped motorists at least in London.

    I agree with OP. This should be celebrated, same with road tax reductions and any other savings whether for people or the environment. This is not the case, people will see it as some lost income. The government see the motorist as a cash cow. Parking association see motorists as a cash cow. Councils see motorists as a cash cow. At every instance of your journey before you have even made your way to the high street everyone is chipping away at your disposable income. So you can see why shops are finding it hard to attract customers? Parking in a free country is anything but.

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    Drum & Bass Till I Die deejayburnout's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    The whole fuel pricing is a farce.

    The govemnent are using drivers as a way to claim all the tax they can and we get robbed of out of our hard earned cash.

    If the govenment stopped taxing us 70% on the fuel as thay do now and make it a £1 a litre, the economic crisis would take a turn for the better. Most of out food/clothes/electrical goods get transported by road and if fuel cost less, it would cost less for us to buy it in the shop as transportation costs would be down. Farmers who produce food would charge less for there products as the machines they use to harvest would cost less to run. The public would have more money in our pockets so we as consumers would buy more food/clothes/goods and spend more on cinemas/eating out/activites. Everyone is a winner including the government as there would be more demand for products and services therefore less of us on the dole and benefits, more tax being generate from income and the economy grows and grows.

    i can go on and on but to me fuel is ( no pun intended ) what fuels the county and pushes economy forward in growth.

    Cheaper fuel costs mean more will be purchased.

    Now Mr Primeminister, sort it out

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by deejayburnout View Post
    The whole fuel pricing is a farce.

    The govemnent are using drivers as a way to claim all the tax they can and we get robbed of out of our hard earned cash.

    If the govenment stopped taxing us 70% on the fuel as thay do now and make it a £1 a litre, the economic crisis would take a turn for the better. Most of out food/clothes/electrical goods get transported by road and if fuel cost less, it would cost less for us to buy it in the shop as transportation costs would be down. Farmers who produce food would charge less for there products as the machines they use to harvest would cost less to run. The public would have more money in our pockets so we as consumers would buy more food/clothes/goods and spend more on cinemas/eating out/activites. Everyone is a winner including the government as there would be more demand for products and services therefore less of us on the dole and benefits, more tax being generate from income and the economy grows and grows.

    i can go on and on but to me fuel is ( no pun intended ) what fuels the county and pushes economy forward in growth.

    Cheaper fuel costs mean more will be purchased.

    Now Mr Primeminister, sort it out

    Rant Over
    Farmers don't pay the same duty on their fuel used wholy and exclusively for farming, see Red Diesel.

    Fuel duty costs are a minimal part of the cost for your examples listed of food, clothes and electrical items, as most are imported.

    Personally I think fuel duty is a good tax, fuel is, after all a scarce substance, we have alternatives (ie public transport, cycling). The problem comes with people who live in rural areas.
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    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    So the figures have been released from spring this year that show sales of petrol and diesel fell quite a bit (~10%):

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19810276

    To the point where the AA are commenting on how it's not accounted for by more fuel efficient cars.

    What I don't get is why this is seen as a negative thing?


    Fault? Accused? Surely it's a good thing that fossil fuel usage is going down? It's better for the environment, possibly better for our health, and reducing demand means prices should be lower for those who do still use petrol/diesel.
    You could indeed say that people using less fossil fuels is good, and without delving into why they would appear so.
    But it can only mean that peple arn't going shopping as much, they aren't going on holiday as much, there's less goods and services being delivered/supplied. And more people out of work and not commuting.
    Basicly, less fuel used = worse econemy.
    There's no way round that at the moment as there are no alternatives to fuel (well, practical alternatives for the normal people)

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    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    The older I get, the less I care about my personal impact on the environment. I guess that having made it to the age of 33 without having drowned from rising sea levels I'm a bit more sceptical. But there's also the fact that a Chinese coal fired power station probably pumps out more CO2 in a second than I manage in a year of driving about...

    Quote Originally Posted by malfunction View Post
    The financial argument for running a car really isn't great though - if I add up the cost of the car itself, insurance, tax, MOT, servicing, tyres and fuel I could get a lot of buses / taxis / trains for the same money.
    Can I first of all say- great to see you back mate, been a long time .

    And then sort of agree- yeah I could save money if I cycled or took public transport everywhere, but it'd be a bloody nuisance. Ironically I get free use of London Buses as a perk of my job but to get from home to work is three seperate bus rides, one of which is a low frequency bus I.E. every 20 minutes.

    So I have to drive, or waste 80+ minutes a day travelling. And given that I only drive 5-6000 miles a year anyway, I've just chopped in my diesel Mk1 Mondeo for a Mk3 3l petrol v6. It'll cost me an extra 20 quid a month if I drive it to work every day, but I probably won't, since I also have an MX-5 and I'm about to acquire a 60mpg maxi-scooter from my dad. And...it's ever so nice to drive.

    I do think that easy personal mobility via a car or motorbike is a great driver of a thriving economy. I like my western lifestyle, and TBH I'd like for everyone to be able to share it. We should be looking to find ways of making it affordable for everyone to drive, not trying to stamp on one of the great innovations of the 20th Century.

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    hexus.zombeh! format's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post

    We should be looking to find ways of making it affordable for everyone to drive, not trying to stamp on one of the great innovations of the 20th Century.
    I'd much rather we looked at changing attitudes and infrastructure to promote cycling. It's far better for you and IMO would solve a number of problems that the widespread use of the automobile causes.
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by format View Post
    I'd much rather we looked at changing attitudes and infrastructure to promote cycling. It's far better for you and IMO would solve a number of problems that the widespread use of the automobile causes.
    /cough this might get ugly

    Door mirrors being knocked off by uninsured cyclists who don't need a license, not insurance, nor any form of bike quality audit for condition, to smash into our cars and bugger off without paying, with no requirement for identifying the offending bike or owner require.

    I ... in case anyone didn't already know... hate bikes.

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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    I do think that easy personal mobility via a car or motorbike is a great driver of a thriving economy. I like my western lifestyle, and TBH I'd like for everyone to be able to share it. We should be looking to find ways of making it affordable for everyone to drive, not trying to stamp on one of the great innovations of the 20th Century.
    this... THIS is exactly correct in every manner. Every syllable... every letter... this is the truth.

    Ignoring my detesting bikes (I'd rather use a little skooter)... car's/vans/motorbikes etc are the way that out country evolved. Every molecule of my body wants to drive.... it always has. I like driving other people.. I like being driven. I like going places...today. Not over several days, at great exertion and sweating profusely. I want comfort, speed.... stereo... in different measures every day. I want dry in the rain, I want cool in the heat, I want sideways in the country and I want it in my cars.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Petro/diesel sales slump earlier in the year

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    this... THIS is exactly correct in every manner. Every syllable... every letter... this is the truth.
    But Scooters.... I used about 5 liters a month in my scooter in SEA, that was not for lack of distance done.
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