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Thread: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

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    Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    British authorities target bloggers, tweeters, and t-shirt wearers for speech crimes.

    What country has just sentenced a man to eight months in prison for wearing an anti-police t-shirt, and another man to three months in prison for telling an “abhorrent” joke on Facebook? Iran, perhaps? China? No, it’s Britain.

    Something has gone horribly wrong in Britain in recent years. The birthplace of John Milton (“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience”), and John Stuart Mill (“Every man who says frankly and fully what he thinks is so far doing a public service”), has become a cesspit of censoriousness.

    The frequency with which the police and legal system now throw into jail anyone judged to have committed a “speech crime” is alarming.

    On October 11, Barry Thew, a 39-year-old man from Manchester, was sentenced to eight months in jail—eight months!—for the crime of wearing a t-shirt that said, “One less pig — perfect justice”.

    He donned the t-shirt just a few hours after two police officers were shot dead in Manchester, on September 18. Some members of the public took offence at his flagrantly police-baiting tee, complained to the cops about him, and before you could say “**** da police” Thew was being found guilty of committing a Section 4A offence under England’s Public Order laws—that is, he “displayed writing or other visible representation with the intention of causing harassment, alarm or distress.”

    On October 8, Matthew Woods, a teenager from Lancashire, was jailed for three months for—get this—writing jokes on his Facebook page.

    Currently, a five-year-old Welsh girl called April Jones is missing. Woods decided to make some jokes about this, writing on FB stuff like “Who in their right mind would abduct a ginger kid?” and “I woke up this morning in the back of a transit van with [a beautiful girl] — I found April in a hopeless place.”

    Funny? No. Criminal? Apparently, yes. For telling these tasteless jokes to the infinitesimally small number of people who can see his Facebook page, Woods was found guilty under the Communications Act 2003 of sending “a message or other matter that was grossly offensive.”

    The judge described Woods’ “crimes” as “abhorrent.” I find the state’s imprisonment of a teenager for telling jokes infinitely more abhorrent than Woods’ sad stab at creating lolz.

    [continues]
    It's a right-wing blog, but they make good points.
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    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Don't see any problem with them being imprisoned for those vulgar acts TBH. 'Free speech' involves some responsibility.

    Things like this have long been crimes, and while the sentences do seem a bit harsh, it may set an example and encourage people to think twice before spouting grossly offensive/upsetting nonsense.

    And before someone has a massive raging rant as a reply, put yourself in the shoes of the friends/families of the victims.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    As a Scot, each time I read about something like this I get more and more geared towards independence. Very disturbing trend tbh.
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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Freedom of speech is dead! even on Hexus thread after thread closed because someone might get offended.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Freedom of speech is dead! even on Hexus
    HEXUS has never had a 'free speech' policy. It's a private forum and the owner, or anyone put in charge by him can ban you without reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    HEXUS has never had a 'free speech' policy. It's a private forum and the owner, or anyone put in charge by him can ban you without reason.
    never said it had ! and to be honest that sounded like a threat.
    Last edited by j1979; 19-10-2012 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Reminds me, I realised its a sad day when you find yourself agreeing with anything Nick Griffin has said.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Don't see any problem with them being imprisoned for those vulgar acts TBH.
    Then you wouldn't mind being jailed for expressing this opinion, right? Because that's what we're talking about here, jailing people just for expressing an opinion. Regardless of how offensive, inflammatory, or provocative it is, it's just an opinion. And if we start jailing people for expressing what they think just because we don't like what they say, then none of us are worthy of expressing our opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    'Free speech' involves some responsibility.
    A responsibility which isn't for the state to impose or decide upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Things like this have long been crimes, and while the sentences do seem a bit harsh, it may set an example and encourage people to think twice before spouting grossly offensive/upsetting nonsense.
    Not really long. And regardless, their duration on the statute books makes it no less abhorrent.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    And before someone has a massive raging rant as a reply, put yourself in the shoes of the friends/families of the victims.
    The friends/families of victims can also use their right to free speech to condemn the remarks, but in all likelihood they would be more concerned with pressing matters than what some prat said in the deep recesses of facebook. Hell I wouldn't have even heard what view this guy expressed if it weren't for his conviction. If you want to amplify the Streisand effect, make speech criminal. Best way to make the undesirable speech reach maximum audience.

    This isn't about protecting the families of victims, it's about censoring free speech. And the UK has been exercising that club extensively as of late.
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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    never said it had !
    But you were making a reference to HEXUS - I'm just pointing out that HEXUS isn't a public place. It's a private forum that has it's own rules on what you can and can't say.

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    and to be honest that sounded like a threat.
    Ermm, what exactly do you feel threatened by?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Sorry, but there's a difference between a sane opinion and mocking people who have been brutally murdered, for example. IMO it falls into a similar category as inciting hatred, and arresting them may remove them from harm's way before someone takes serious offence and attacks them (as happens frequently), landing the attacker in potentially serious trouble. People like to use 'free speech' as an excuse for anything short of physical acts, but there have always been sensible limitations which most normal people should know.

    As I said, the sentences are harsh IMO, and the money used to look after them for however many months could be spent elsewhere, but I don't believe it's wrong to consider these criminal offences.

    Edit: I've been away from the media for a little while so this is the first I think I've heard of the T-shirt guy, but it seems the t-shirt had very little to do with his sentence; he had broken his parole, landing himself back inside. Still, not as sensationalist when you put it like that is it? Apparently, he's only likely to serve half of the sentence anyway, which means he essentially gets away with it.

    The law broken in these cases is a "public order offence which forbids the display of writing with intention of causing harassment, alarm or distress."
    Drunks get arrested daily for urinating, swearing, etc in the street, either of which are less vulgar than the above.
    Last edited by watercooled; 19-10-2012 at 06:30 PM.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Sorry, but there's a difference between a sane opinion and mocking people who have been brutally murdered, for example.
    Really? Because I found that 'sane opinion' "extremely offensive", I find any opinion or resulting measure which impinges free speech offensive, while I merely found the man who mocked the dead police 'tasteless'. And therein lay the problem, what people are offended by is as subjective as people's opinions. But just because I found your opinion offensive, it doesn't mean I should be able to stop you from expressing it. That kind of authoritarianism is suppose to be in the realm of history and fiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    IMO it falls into a similar category as inciting hatred, and arresting them may remove them from harm's way before someone takes serious offence and attacks them (as happens frequently), landing the attacker in potentially serious trouble.
    And there's the other great assault on free speech. Blaming the victim of violence simply because they said something. Nobody has a human right to not be offended. If you don't like what someone is saying you're perfectly free to walk away. "Incitement" law simply gives them a free hand to make the conscious decision to violently attack someone when they say something they don't personally like or agree with, doubling down on criminalising speech. It's the responsibility of every person to exercise restraint when dealing with people they don't agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    People like to use 'free speech' as an excuse for anything short of physical acts, but there have always been sensible limitations which most normal people should know.
    There's 'always' been monarch rule as well, that doesn't mean it was a good thing. In fact offending the monarch was the source of speech crushing laws, which came with the punishment of death. That was one of the first things to go when parliament took over the role of government, and rightly so. Impinging on people's right to speak their mind *no matter how offended it makes you*, is wrong. Completely and utterly immoral.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    ...but I don't believe it's wrong to consider these criminal offences.
    I do. Even if he's the scummiest scum on the planet, he still has every right to speak his mind, it's the very most basic protection in democracy and basic human rights. Everyone else has the right to not speak to him. That's how it works in a sane and free society.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Edit: I've been away from the media for a little while so this is the first I think I've heard of the T-shirt guy, but it seems the t-shirt had very little to do with his sentence; he had broken his parole, landing himself back inside. Still, not as sensationalist when you put it like that is it? Apparently, he's only likely to serve half of the sentence anyway, which means he essentially gets away with it.

    The law broken in these cases is a "public order offence which forbids the display of writing with intention of causing harassment, alarm or distress."
    Drunks get arrested daily for urinating, swearing, etc in the street, either of which are less vulgar than the above.
    AKA, engaging in free speech.
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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    You could argue that urinating in the street is "Freedom of Expression" or urinating through someone's letter box is the same freedom of expression. Would you condone that too? If it is my letter box, would I not have the "right" only to expect letters to be posted through it?

    People that bang on about their 'rights' usually conveniently forget about the responsibilities that go with them.
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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    UK has gone to crap these last 50 years, full of left-wing PR idiots who get offended at the slightest thing and can't change their own dipers without needing a safety course first.

    Sooner I get to Japan the better.

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    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    You could argue that urinating in the street is "Freedom of Expression" or urinating through someone's letter box is the same freedom of expression. Would you condone that too? If it is my letter box, would I not have the "right" only to expect letters to be posted through it?
    Hold up - Pissing through a letterbox is a far cry from a person saying something others don't agree with. You can tag "Freedom of..." onto whatever, it doesn't make the comparison any more reasonable.

    "Freedom of axe swinging" - after all, if you get in the way of me swinging my axe, that's your fault!

    Speech on it's own doesn't cause an actual event in the world to happen, although granted, it can inspire people to do it.

    If I used my free speech to tell people the moon was made of cheese, they'd laugh at me. If I used it to tell people to kill all fish in the world, I'd be accused of being a nutter. If I used to make negative comments about a specific race, there is a good chance I'd be locked up.

    All are equally as stupid as each other. You don't alter views by banning them, you do it by challenging and education.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    You don't alter views by banning them, you do it by challenging and education.
    I could alter j1979's view of HEXUS by banning him.

    he kinda likes it a bit now.. and would dislike it if I banned his ass.....
    Last edited by Zak33; 19-10-2012 at 09:10 PM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Britain’s High-Tech Thought Police

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Freedom of speech is dead! even on Hexus thread after thread closed because someone might get offended.
    this is a worry for us.

    not that we "close thread after thread" but that you think we've done you wrong somehow. We try for a balanced view.. we Moderate as little as possible (Agent was one of our best with trhat balance too)

    but we, as a group of humans, use out life skills to try to keep 90% of the punters happy and therefore are bound to irritate 10% of them a bit.

    We COULD allow the 10% to stalk the online-halls of HEXUS doing what they want.. but if 90% of the members wandered off we'd be left with something to close.

    hard act to get right.

    I personally think our team is as diverse as we've ever had. you'd seriously not grasp just HOW wide a scope of people we have. The Mod's and Admin's are MADLY VARIED.

    Look at Agent (ex mod at moment... having a break from it) and Peterb.... both respectful of each other and yet.. totally in disagreement just up there /\

    0iD and Dave87.. you'd not believe how far apart they are from each other, and I know them both and they rock

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