Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

  1. #1
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,164
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    So I was reading this today
    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...yer-begins-now
    Its saying that now a Hacker who was found to be mentally unstable enough to coupe with extradition to the US for his crimes (which he admits) will not go ahead. It's unclear when he will be prosecuted in the UK for it.

    The article starts talking about Richard O'Dwyer, who ran a website which openly if not exclusively shared links to illegal content. The journalist there has the idea that he hasn't committed a crime under UK law, well if that is the case then he won't be extradited, as he has to be found guilty under UK law too.

    But also, why because someone has had their extradition veto'd on the grounds of mental health and his personal welfare, someone who isn't afflicted with these illnesses, who isn't even been extradited for a similar crime, have any effect on it.

    So the question I have is why to people try and draw parallels between such different things, and just as why in the whole Julian Assange thing, is there so much down right falsehoods been published all over the place.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  2. #2
    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Looking down & checking on swearing
    Posts
    19,378
    Thanks
    2,892
    Thanked
    3,403 times in 2,693 posts

    Re: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    Never let the truth get in the way of a good story/bandwagon/conspiracy theory.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,474
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    140 times in 116 posts
    • BobF64's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77-V Pro
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i7-3770K
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800
      • Storage:
      • Multiple HDD and SSD drives
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ASUS DUAL-GTX1060-06G
      • PSU:
      • 750W Silverstone Strider Gold Evolution
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT02
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • HP ZR24w

    Re: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    The article starts talking about Richard O'Dwyer, who ran a website which openly if not exclusively shared links to illegal content. The journalist there has the idea that he hasn't committed a crime under UK law, well if that is the case then he won't be extradited, as he has to be found guilty under UK law too.
    If memory serves, he doesnt have to be found guilty here, doesnt even need to be chargeable here.

    What is required is that the crime committed carries a minimum prison sentence, I think at least 12 months.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    But also, why because someone has had their extradition veto'd on the grounds of mental health and his personal welfare, someone who isn't afflicted with these illnesses, who isn't even been extradited for a similar crime, have any effect on it.
    It shouldnt and probably wont have any effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    So the question I have is why to people try and draw parallels between such different things, and just as why in the whole Julian Assange thing, is there so much down right falsehoods been published all over the place.
    Because they can, because papers need to print something and because "journalistic integrity" is so very last millennium.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    661
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked
    49 times in 28 posts
    • Dingo's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77-V LX
      • CPU:
      • 3570K
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Kingston HyperX Blue
      • Storage:
      • Corsair Force series 3 120GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI 6850 OC Edition
      • PSU:
      • Akasa Vodoo 550W
      • Case:
      • Akasa Eclipse
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2412M
      • Internet:
      • Zen

    Re: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    Well the title kind of confused me somewhat, a faux pas of your own perhaps, but the content explained a tad more.


    It should be suffice to say that all extradition proceedings are based upon three things.....Politics, politics and facts......now the third thing should never interfere with the first two, because it is so far down the scale of relevance, whereas the first two are always relevant.

    Is it politically expedient, does it give us a political advantage, can we negotiate political advantage, is it politically expedient to submit to political pressure, should we deny extradition to give ourselves a political bargaining chip for future extradition hearings, and most importantly, is it politically expedient, given the current state of the economy and the sheep's (oops, sorry, voter's) mindset to to allow said extradition when it could become a political "hot potatoe".

    It is a pre-arranged agreement, based upon sympathy and political expedience, "truth has nothing to do with the outcome.......................whereas the outcome has everything to do about the truth"!!.


    I'll leave that thought with you

  5. #5
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,164
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobF64 View Post
    If memory serves, he doesnt have to be found guilty here, doesnt even need to be chargeable here.

    What is required is that the crime committed carries a minimum prison sentence, I think at least 12 months.
    IANAL, but isn't it also that they're has to be a case to answer under UK law, for instance all the bullcrap put round about Assange "it's not even rape under UK law" thing. When a series of Judges has said, yes, it would be rape, so there is a case to answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by BobF64 View Post
    Because they can, because papers need to print something and because "journalistic integrity" is so very last millennium.
    Sadly yes, the mainstream press and /r/circlejerk are hard to tell appart at times.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  6. #6
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    9,948
    Thanks
    501
    Thanked
    399 times in 255 posts

    Re: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    IIRC, the main objection to the US/UK extradition agreement is that it's one-sided, in that the US courts can demand the extradition of a UK subject with a far lower standard of evidence than they would demand if we requested the extradition of a US citizen- to the extent that they can effectively demand extradition on a speculative basis, in order to subject the suspect to interrogation.

    That, IMO, is an entirely reasonable objection. The fault lies with the previous government for agreeing to such a one-sided arrangement.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,474
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    140 times in 116 posts
    • BobF64's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77-V Pro
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i7-3770K
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800
      • Storage:
      • Multiple HDD and SSD drives
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ASUS DUAL-GTX1060-06G
      • PSU:
      • 750W Silverstone Strider Gold Evolution
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT02
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • HP ZR24w

    Re: Why do we have such a faux pas about extradition to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    IIRC, the main objection to the US/UK extradition agreement is that it's one-sided, in that the US courts can demand the extradition of a UK subject with a far lower standard of evidence than they would demand if we requested the extradition of a US citizen- to the extent that they can effectively demand extradition on a speculative basis, in order to subject the suspect to interrogation.

    That, IMO, is an entirely reasonable objection. The fault lies with the previous government for agreeing to such a one-sided arrangement.
    That is due to additional legal protections that US citizens have that UK subjects dont enjoy, 4th Amendment to the US Constitution I think.

    Protections that could have been included in the treaty to ensure it was the same in both directions.

    That said, you could argue that the UK does include similar entitlements, that of right to trial by a jury of your peers, although that depend on what "peer" means.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •