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Thread: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741

    Woman dies after abortion request 'refused'

    The death of a woman who was 17 weeks pregnant is the subject of two investigations at University Hospital Galway in the Republic of Ireland.

    So a woman dies a horrible dreadful death, obviously killing her child too.

    In a Hospital. That is what angers me, this wasn't in a church, you don't consult a priest when your sick, you consult a scientific professional, which uses evidence based research and testing. Not a book about a zombie which has no evidence what so ever, and makes no sense from a logical point of view.

    So please, tell me how religion makes the world a better place.
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    The best way to get good people to act badly? Religion.

    The sooner the human race gets over this legacy from an earlier age of ignorance the better for us all.

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Oh FFS.

    May her and her child rest in peace.

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Yes, let's conflate one woman getting bad medical advice at a hospital, with Religion killing people indiscrimately. That adds a lot to the reasoned debate about the good or ill of religion

    Don't get me wrong, if she was seriously told the she couldn't have an abortion because Ireland is a Catholic country then whoever did that needs feeding to the dogs, but that's not a religion problem, that a "that person is a <expletive deleted>" problem. Just because there are bad religious people doesn't make religion bad.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    IANAMPOL (I am not a medical profession or lawyer) but... isn't it the law in Ireland about abortion?

    Which is decided not by medical research understanding, but by a book?

    This is why I hate religious people, its always "well why are you focusing on this example, why are you focusing on that example, why can't you only look at the bits that are ok".

    This decision was motivated by religion. As such religion is on trial just as much as the people who enforced the decision.
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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Abortion is illegal in the Republic of Ireland,although it appears that if the mothers life is in danger,it can be allowed to happen:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortio...lic_of_Ireland

    So,it appears a screw up by the hospital.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    This decision was motivated by religion. As such religion is on trial just as much as the people who enforced the decision.
    TBF,most unneeded suffering and death in the world is "probably" caused by excessive intolerance,greed,selfishness and materialism. The motivation is a more important thing to tackle,if you want the world to be a better place. Until then people will always be following some form of "religion" be it of Gods,personality cults,pixxies,money,etc.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 14-11-2012 at 01:18 PM.

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    TBF,most unneeded suffering and death in the world is "probably" caused by excessive intolerance,greed,selfishness and materialism justified through religion.
    Fixed that for you.

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    No need to fix what I said.

    In cases when there is still no God based religion people still do it.

    This is the sad thing people don't get at all. Religious fervour,is not just limited to religions based around Gods,but all the other religions which many people don't realise they are even following!!

    Look at how the world economy is suffering?? That is down to pure greed and selfishness of people who don't mind screwing over everyone else, and how many billions have been affected??

    If you are against God based religions,you should be against all religious fervour(which all affects the same parts of the brain).

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    There was. All other things being equal, bad people will be bad and good people will be good. My original point? "The best way to get good people to act badly? Religion."

    The woman in question was OK with and wanted an abortion. It was others (who I assume are good people) who were made to do 'bad', against the lady's wishes because of religion - and it cost her her life.

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Surely the woman never died because of religion, The woman died because of bad practice at a hospital, and surely Doctors are there to save people and not let them die, some questions will have to be answered.

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    There was. All other things being equal, bad people will be bad and good people will be good. My original point? "The best way to get good people to act badly? Religion."
    And that's pretty much where you fall over. Good people will be good regardless of their circumstances. Anyone who justifies bad practice through religion isn't a good person. At best, they're an idiot. In fact, by emphasising the religious aspect of this decision, the people arguing against religion in this thread are using religion to absolve someone of the responsibility for their own bad decision. And yet it's the religious people who are the problem?

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    There was. All other things being equal, bad people will be bad and good people will be good. My original point? "The best way to get good people to act badly? Religion."
    Nope,it did not need to be fixed.

    What about things like Nationalism?? Racism?? Jealousy(they are stealing our jobs crowd)?? Eugenic principles(purity of our race)?? Non-religious ideology?? Etc??

    The last two world wars were more about nationalism,eugenics principles and economic reasons than religion. Pol Pot killed millions due to ideological intolerance.

    How about all the people who have died of treatable diseases worldwide,down to countries paying more in debt repayments than healthcare??

    I find religious(God based) and anti-religious(God based) fanboism hilarious,because in the end instead of tackling the important causes of humanity's suffering, which is the hard part,people are just grinding their axes of fail and achieving nothing.

    Edit!!

    I am sure this thread will soon go into religious war mode soon,so I will make my exit now!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 14-11-2012 at 02:40 PM.

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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    That this woman has died is sad. That Ireland apparently had its laws related to abortion unclear and in a mess is irresponsible. However, in this particular case, as far as I can tell, there is no actual confirmation that this woman's death had anything to do with her pregnancy. The assertion that it did comes only from the father based, apparently, on the symptoms described by the mother before her death.

    Cause of death was named as septicemia which might have had nothing at all to do with the child.

    So, before the issue of irresponsible religion and abortion is brought up, there is first the possible issue of sensationalist media using this story to kick up the abortion issue.
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Abortion is illegal in the Republic of Ireland,although it appears that if the mothers life is in danger,it can be allowed to happen:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortio...lic_of_Ireland

    So,it appears a screw up by the hospital.
    No its not.

    From the page you linked too:

    No clear result or consensus has emerged. In theory, abortion is legal in Ireland if there is a risk to the life of the woman. A provision exists in the Irish constitution to allow Dáil Éireann to legislate on this; however, no political party has risked it.

    It is not a screw up by the hospital, its religion dictating to a democracy. Which if your off that religion is great, if your not, its terrible.
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    Cause of death was named as septicemia which might have had nothing at all to do with the child.
    It might not have, the report isn't in the public domain (yet!) but what we do know is that she had requested a termination, was in ill health, and was refused, due to someone elses religious grounds. Given how sick she clearly was, it is very reasonable to allow termination as the stress created by having an alien growth inside is well documented and known.
    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    So, before the issue of irresponsible religion and abortion is brought up, there is first the possible issue of sensationalist media using this story to kick up the abortion issue.
    So your saying she shouldn't be able to choose about her body, her child but let someone else? Oh yes, we've no right to be kicking off about such an issue. We must all bow to YOUR beliefs.
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    Re: Yey Religion! Woman dies a horrible, needless death in a First World country.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    ... its religion dictating to a democracy.
    A democracy in which the vast majority are religious. But frankly, a democracy is terrible for anyone who's of a clear minority. Sucks to be a minority, but that's how democracy works.

    It sounds to me more like someone wanted to run more tests and determine whether the pregnancy was affecting the health of the mother, and they hid behind religion rather than taking responsibility for their own actions.

    Which is reprehensible - but not the fault of the religion.

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