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Thread: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engine

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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engine


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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Nobody seems to care about this potentially innovative piece of UK engineering!!

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Knowing Culham Labs, I'm hoping this wont take as long as fusion power !!
    Cheers, David



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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Nobody seems to care about this potentially innovative piece of UK engineering!!
    I do, and I hope it progresses to test flight in this country. Too often we start innovative projects and then abandon the technology for other nations to take them to fruition.
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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I do, and I hope it progresses to test flight in this country. Too often we start innovative projects and then abandon the technology for other nations to take them to fruition.
    We were the first country to have indigenous satellite launch ability and then give it up!! NASA and Arianespace benefited from the UK scientists working on that project. I just get the impression that in the last 40 years the UK aerospace industry is a shadow of what it could be. Look at the supersonic Harrier follow on - the government cancelled it and the French ended up benefiting with more Mirage sales(the Delta planform was influenced by a Fairey design tested in France). It took until now for another plane to be VTOL with one engine showing how far ahead of the curve the UK was. It is just one of many short sighted decisions which screwed over our aerospace industries.

    Too many people in the UK take our innovation for granted and people are more worried by crap like reality TV.

    The French OTH,did the opposite and invested heavily in engineering.

    SABRE really does deserve more funding but I get the impression it will limp on until another country decides to buy the research up!!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-04-2012 at 12:36 AM.

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    Pseudo-Mad Scientist Whiternoise's Avatar
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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    If anyone's interested in where the Government is spending its cash in the Space industry, you can look here:

    http://www.innovateuk.org/_assets/pd..._directory.pdf

    And yes, Reaction Engines are in there (twice).

    Our space budget is around £250m and we get an estimated return on that of around £7bn annually. Primarily this is from downstream services, we're very big in communications and the success of Sky is largely attributable to our space program. The government knows this is a money spinner. Where our strengths lie are still Satellites and we're still well respected as innovators worldwide, but I'm told there is this impression that we're a bunch of geniuses with no money.

    Aerospace is another matter, but there is some funding overlap.

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    I actually talked to one or two people who worked on the Beagle2(and things like Newton XMM) a few years a go and it was down to the government barely funding the project that lead to the issues in the end. The re-entry system needed more money but they had to do with ever was available,ie, a shoe string budget.

    At least we spend loads of public money on the Millenium tent!!

    For some reason when I visited the Mullard Space Science Laboratory,I expected Q from James Bond to be walking towards me. A big country house/mansion with wooden flooring and a huge dish sticking out the side of it. Maybe that was why I got the James Bond vibe!!

    The French spent around 1.7 billion Euro on their space programme in 2004. The funding allocated is still a pittance in the UK and something like SABRE certainly needs more than what it is being given,considering the complexities of what it is trying to achieve. Remember that the original research started in the early 1980s - so it has taken 30 years to get to this level because of financial issues. REL has been trying to get funding from the UK government for a very long time and only has been partially sucessful.

    A lot of the current funding is from the ESA ATM which means pan-European funding. It probably means that a reasonably amount of the SABRE developement costs are from the French!!

    I really hope the pre-cooler works so that REL can secure the additional funding from private sources it is promised(over $300 million although it is hard to say whether this is mostly UK investors though) and I also hope the government keeps to its funding promises for the project and not do what they did to companies like Sheffield Forgemasters and stump up only a small amount.

    We cancelled Black Arrow and the French invested in Arianespace and Airbus. The only reason the government saved RR was that too many jobs would have lost if it collapesed.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-04-2012 at 07:30 PM.

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    I had a quick scout around and the amounts of money spent look tiny!!

    It seems that in 2000,REL requested funding from the UK government and got a cold shoulder. It seems the Millenium tent was much more important.

    Since,2009 they have secured 3 million Euro and 2 million of that came from the ESA for the entire Skylon project including SABRE. There are EU research grants for labs which are more that(as in three times more than that).

    It really does seems this project sucess is going to depend on private investment to drive it forward and it would not surprise me if most of it is foreign too.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-04-2012 at 07:46 PM.

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I actually talked to one or two people who worked on the Beagle2(and things like Newton XMM) a few years a go and it was down to the government barely funding the project that lead to the issues in the end. The re-entry system needed more money but they had to do with ever was available,ie, a shoe string budget.

    At least we spend loads of public money on the Millenium tent!!

    For some reason when I visited the Mullard Space Science Laboratory,I expected Q from James Bond to be walking towards me. A big country house/mansion with wooden flooring and a huge dish sticking out the side of it. Maybe that was why I got the James Bond vibe!!
    I'm starting a PhD there next year, come and visit

    I was thinking more X Men house?

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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiternoise View Post
    I'm starting a PhD there next year, come and visit

    I was thinking more X Men house?
    I am a tad worried the Moose may end up tripping on someones critical research - I don't think they are allowed near such delicate things such as sensors and people!!

    I only visited MSSL once throughout my wonderings and it was quite a few years ago,so it might have changed now. Hopefully,it hasn't lost its charm!!

    It could be the X Men house too - but Q and his mobile laboratories seems more fitting.

    BTW,now that you are going to UCL,you need to make sure you show those chaps at Kings a thing or two!!


    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-04-2012 at 08:32 PM.

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I am a tad worried the Moose may end up tripping on someones crictical research - I don't think they are allowed near such delicate things such as sensors and people!!

    I only visited MSSL once throughout my wonderings and it was quite a few years ago,so it might have changed now. Hopefully,it hasn't lost its charm!!

    It could be the X Men house too - but Q and his mobile laboratories seems more fitting.

    BTW,now that you are going to UCL,you need to make sure you show those chaps at Kings a thing or two!!

    It's an amazing place, they've still got the Skylark in the lobby

    They let me play with a CubeSat after my interview, was slightly worried that I'd drop it or something...

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiternoise View Post
    It's an amazing place, they've still got the Skylark in the lobby

    They let me play with a CubeSat after my interview, was slightly worried that I'd drop it or something...
    You could have said you were G-testing it!!

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    .....

    It really does seems this project sucess is going to depend on private investment to drive it forward and it would not surprise me if most of it is foreign too.
    It's surprising they haven't tried the military for funding, even if the concept of manned hypersonic flight doesn't pan out, an engine this powerful would be ideal for both low-orbit insertions and various types of long range missiles that the Americans love to drop on Third World countries.

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Are these engines powerful and efficient?

    Never mind the military, get the power companies involved, those that make portable generators (Agreco for example) and the gas turbine croud (GE, Siemens, Doosan, etc.). Could cut the running costs of some peoples power requirements quite significantly.

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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin


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    Re: Reaction Engines begin tests of pre-cooler which is essential for the SABRE engin

    Bump!

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