Boeing Dreamliner - turned into a nightmare?

[peterb]

So, following on from Japan Airlines grounding their fleet earlier this week, all in service Boeing 787s have been grounded after problem with the aircraft system Lithium batteries are investigated.

Not a good week for Boeing.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...90G15K20130118

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21054089

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/b...d-8457317.html

But I suppose good news for Airbus Industries.

[HalloweenJack]

1979

that was the last time an entire worldwide grounding of an aircraft type.

safer to ground the type than have 1 catch fire and fall out of the sky - current nickname though is the 787 `firebird` ; rumour mill is the second battery issue was also a fire

[Butuz]

It's not difficult to set lithium batteries on fire if you mistreat them!

Butuz

[peterb]

It's not difficult to set lithium batteries on fire if you mistreat them!

Butuz

True, but I would have expected Boeing's design engineers to know how to use a lithium battery in such a way that it wasn't mis-treated!

[kalniel]

True, but I would have expected Boeing's design engineers to know how to use a lithium battery in such a way that it wasn't mis-treated!

Perhaps the li-ion batteries weren't performing to their advertised specifications? They're Japanese manufactured, ironically.

[badass]

I vaguely remember a few headlines when the A380 was newly released, though not as much as this. Is that just a lack of memory or is the dreamliner actually experiencing significantly more problems than expected for a newly released passenger aircraft?

[kalniel]

I vaguely remember a few headlines when the A380 was newly released, though not as much as this. Is that just a lack of memory or is the dreamliner actually experiencing significantly more problems than expected for a newly released passenger aircraft?

I don't think it is, but it's had several in quick succession. The A380 had cracks in the wings! Now forgotten/forgiven.

[HalloweenJack]

http://www.flightglobal.com/page/A38...hnical-issues/


list of A380 issues

[TheAnimus]

yeah all airliners have teething issues, considering everything thats radically new with the 787, its really not that many.

[HalloweenJack]

first time since the DC-10 that an entire world wide grounding of an aircraft - so its a little more than ` teething` issues

[kalniel]

first time since the DC-10 that an entire world wide grounding of an aircraft - so its a little more than ` teething` issues

But it's not something fundamental. It's one component that's not even an integral part of the plane. They had to ground the planes though because fire is fire and you don't take chances.

[TheAnimus]

first time since the DC-10 that an entire world wide grounding of an aircraft - so its a little more than ` teething` issues

That's not really true or fair.

Often an entire "type" will be grounded, ie, anyone using certain engines, or the a380. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16452878

As all of these dreamliners are the exact same when it comes to the batteries AFAIK, its not really surprising. When you consider everything that has been a first for boeing on it, its really not that surprising.

Find me an airliner that hasn't had teething problems in its introduction!

[HalloweenJack]

A380 for the first 4 months....

the 787 which have had battery fires were under 3 months old

edit:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...nction-381268/

looks like the cause was overcharging of the batteries over a period of time

[TheAnimus]

Yes, I know nothing really about lipol chemistry, but I do know they like to blow up. We've seen it in cars, laptops and phones. Hardly surprising that someone operating with the range of temperatures and endurance cycle demands of an airliner is having some issues. However my understanding is most of these they think can be fixed in the controller circuitry for the cells.

All I was really trying to say is all airliners have teething issues, I think we agree on that!

The dreamliner is radically different in many ways, so its probably going to have a few more than its fair share. But these will mostly be minor economic things rather than dangerous things.

[gagaga]

But it's not something fundamental. It's one component that's not even an integral part of the plane. They had to ground the planes though because fire is fire and you don't take chances.

Errm slightly fundamental given pretty much all of the previously hyraulic systems are electrical on the 787. They had a problem with one of the development planes lost both the primary and secondary generator (making the cockpit instruments go dark). It landed due to a mechanical air-generator that drops out of the bottom of the plane ... this is a big problem for them. It's likely to be solved with active battery cooling that will undo some of the fuel efficiency/weight benefits (which might be good news for passengers if it means smaller payload=fewer seats=more room).

[HalloweenJack]

the RAT was all that kept boeing from having a disaster , as even the windmiling turbine electrical generation failed!