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Thread: Hmv to accept vouchers

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    Hmv to accept vouchers

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...odwill-gesture


    Shoppers who bought HMV gift cards from Asda and Tesco can exchange them at face value for the supermarkets' own gift cards.

    as long as you can PROVE they were bought att those superstores then you can exchange them.
    Last edited by HalloweenJack; 21-01-2013 at 06:05 PM.

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Fair play to the supermarkets for satisfying their statutory obligations without trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Hopefully they're big enough to get a chunk back from the HMV administrators.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    actually they don't have to refund the vouchers , so nothing about statutory obligations at all

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Fair play to the supermarkets for satisfying their statutory obligations without trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Hopefully they're big enough to get a chunk back from the HMV administrators.
    Believe me, their size will cut absolutely no ice with the administrators.

    Whether it's you or me, or Tesco, either the administrator has a legal duty to pay out, or they don't. And if they don't (and they don't over vouchers), they will not.

    Put it this way. The only time the administrators are at legal risk is if they act outside their duties and obligations as administrators. Short of that, they are effectively paid subcontractors, usually appointed by or in association with the court, and they will do the job insolvency law requires, and provided they do that, they will get paid. If they don't do they, they could well end up getting sued.

    It's a bit like hiring a solicitor to sue someone for non-payment of debt. He gets paid, win or lose (except for the no-win, no-fee brigade), and he gets paid the same whether you win or lose. As does an administrator. The job, duties and obligations are defined by law, and as long as they follow that, they have nothing to fear from any pressure from anyone, Tesco included.

    It is, however, a complex job, though in at least some ways, less so for the likes of HMV than, say, Comet.

    But overall, the administrators are there to do the job stipulated by law, and not even the likes of Tesco could intimidate them.

    No, the supermarkets (IMHO) have seen an opportunity here, and it is at least in part, a PR exercise. Maybe entirely a PR exercise. They will. after all, know how many qualifying vouchers they sold, can probably put a decent guess on how many are still to be redeemed, and my bet is that at some level, probably board level, they've had a conversation that says "if we do this, we garner a lot of brownie points and happy consumers, and our exposure is £x,000", be it in the hundreds of thousands, or possibly even over a million. Then, they'll have worked out what, say a TV ad campaign costs and how much much consumer goodwill they gain, and will have decided it's blooming cheap at the price.

    It also neatly avoids any bad press from consumers saying "but you sold me those vouchers" , regardless of whether those consumers have a legit legal argument or not, that would be bad publicity.

    Personally, I've no doubt at all that this is a simple, hard-headed business decision that is in those supermarket's best interests. None the less, cynical motive or not, it's a bargain for qualifying consumers who, IMHO, ought to grab it if they can, while they can.

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    ^^ its a PR exercise and one that Tesco`s actually needs right now - quite possibly it could even be a loss-leader for them but since the brands market share is slipping , something like this could boost it

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Yeah, after the bad press of the horsemeat it's a great tactic to divert attention for a bit.

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Yes, Tesco bosses can shout at the administrators until they are hoarse... oh - maybe not
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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Believe me, their size.....cut....for qualifying consumers who, IMHO, ought to grab it if they can, while they can.
    I was about to call you a cynical git until I realised I agree with everything you've said.

    Big business eh, it's for the people . Still, it's better than nowt for those who want somebody to Honour My Voucher and as a ploy, it will work.

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Quote Originally Posted by santa claus View Post
    I was about to call you a cynical git until I realised I agree with everything you've said.

    ....
    Takes one to know one, Santa.

    But, it's a charge to which I'd have to plead guilty, especially as I've regularly admitted it. And even a cynical git is sometimes right. I think probably far more often than the non-cynical would think, but then, I would would say that, it's a cynical perspective.

    You know the cynic's definition of cynicism? Realism born of experience.

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    i'm not sure the full levels of HMV's debts, but whilst this is clearly nothing much more than a publicity stunt, the big companies acceptings these vouchers aren't necesarily going to lose all the money. they will collect the gift tokens and become a creditor, and may have slightly better powers at recouping some of that credit than thousands of individuals with £10 tokens. so even if they only got 50% of the token value back, having swapped for their own gift tokens that need to be spent in their own stores, giving them perhaps 50-25% gross profit, the overall "cost" of the excersize could be restricted to a relatively small amount of money that could well be cheaper than any other type of paid advertising. it's a bit of a gamble, but if the whole group was taken over then they could get all the voucher money back. if liquidated then as a debtor they could still get something in the pound

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    i'm not sure the full levels of HMV's debts, but whilst this is clearly nothing much more than a publicity stunt, the big companies acceptings these vouchers aren't necesarily going to lose all the money. they will collect the gift tokens and become a creditor, and may have slightly better powers at recouping some of that credit than thousands of individuals with £10 tokens. so even if they only got 50% of the token value back, having swapped for their own gift tokens that need to be spent in their own stores, giving them perhaps 50-25% gross profit, the overall "cost" of the excersize could be restricted to a relatively small amount of money that could well be cheaper than any other type of paid advertising. it's a bit of a gamble, but if the whole group was taken over then they could get all the voucher money back. if liquidated then as a debtor they could still get something in the pound
    My thoughts exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    i'm not sure the full levels of HMV's debts, but whilst this is clearly nothing much more than a publicity stunt, the big companies acceptings these vouchers aren't necesarily going to lose all the money. they will collect the gift tokens and become a creditor, and may have slightly better powers at recouping some of that credit than thousands of individuals with £10 tokens. so even if they only got 50% of the token value back, having swapped for their own gift tokens that need to be spent in their own stores, giving them perhaps 50-25% gross profit, the overall "cost" of the excersize could be restricted to a relatively small amount of money that could well be cheaper than any other type of paid advertising. it's a bit of a gamble, but if the whole group was taken over then they could get all the voucher money back. if liquidated then as a debtor they could still get something in the pound
    Based on my admittedly way out of date experience in our insolvency department, they'll be extremely lucky to get 50% of the face value back.

    If the company sold, in it's entirety, including all liabilities as well as assets, then creditors may get paid in full. If administrators managed to trade for long enough to restructure and resuscitate the company, then maybe that applies then as well. Both are looking extremely unlikely for HMV.

    More likely, unsecured trade creditors will get a few pence in the pound if they're lucky and naff-all if they're not, whether that unsecured creditor is Tesco or, well, you or me.

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Some people appear to think that if your a "big company" you stand a better chance of getting money back from a company in administration.

    This isn't true. For instance Zavvi was caught between a rock and a hard place when woolworths went under.

    Enterprises fail, most new companies go bust, too many leave debts, waste other companies time and money, create inventory or supply issues with just an order placed, even if settlement never happened.

    I'll be honest, I find it incredible how ignorant people are of this, casting judgement.

    They would also be the first ones if HMV fired 80% of its staff and immediately didn't attempt to have a going concern to complain. What if by not allowing cards, they have enough money for a little bit more of the payroll? In fact there are probably many 'evil' things that could be done by HMV administrators.

    They provide no course of action to suggest better ways of doing it.

    I also suggest looking at Tesco's profit margins, http://ycharts.com/companies/TESO/gross_profit_margin it is unlikely that 25-50% gross profit, especially if they use them for things that they would have bought at HMV, which typically are the lowest margin items sold.

    What is more likely, is that very, very few people will have bought vouchers via tesco. Even fewer will have receipts. So they can do a gesture of 'good will' knowing it will cost very little.
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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Some people appear to think that if your a "big company" you stand a better chance of getting money back from a company in administration.
    all creditors are treated essentially the same unless they have preferential status


    This isn't true.
    generally, but not always



    For instance Zavvi was caught between a rock and a hard place when woolworths went under.

    Enterprises fail, most new companies go bust, too many leave debts, waste other companies time and money, create inventory or supply issues with just an order placed, even if settlement never happened.

    I'll be honest, I find it incredible how ignorant people are of this, casting judgement.
    i find that statement incredible. most people don't have a clue about that side of businesses. few people go through the process to understand it. whilst thousands of people may be affected by it, such as being made redundant, only a small number of people actually deal with the admin and having dealt with a few myself, i know the staff aren't provided with much detail, and most have better things to worry about, such as how they are going to pay their bills


    They would also be the first ones if HMV fired 80% of its staff and immediately didn't attempt to have a going concern to complain.
    who and why? these seem like two separate things to me. i presume you aren't inferring myself, but i give other people a little bit more credit when it comes to this


    What if by not allowing cards, they have enough money for a little bit more of the payroll? In fact there are probably many 'evil' things that could be done by HMV administrators.
    by not allowing cards, there is little doubt they won't have more money for other creditors including staff wages. it would be unfair under current law to treat voucher holders separately. when i mentioned a big company having a better chance of recovering money it was in respect of thousands of individuals with £10 tokens not having the time, inclination or knowledge to bother chasing them up, as many will just think the money is down the drain and not read the news to find out if the position changes, and as unregistered creditors like suppliers that invoiced goods, there will be no record help by the administrators as to who owns vouchers. but if a company like tesco takes say £10k in vouchers, they will get an employee(s) at head office to take it up with the administrators as part of their salaried job, meaning that whatever percentage is due per voucher, they would get the full amount for the vouchers they have, rather than vouchers going to waste by holders who don't bother chasing the debt


    They provide no course of action to suggest better ways of doing it.

    I also suggest looking at Tesco's profit margins, http://ycharts.com/companies/TESO/gross_profit_margin it is unlikely that 25-50% gross profit, especially if they use them for things that they would have bought at HMV, which typically are the lowest margin items sold.
    that's the gross profit for the entire company. it has no detail per profit. some items will have tiny profit margins, or even none in the case of loss leaders, others will have much much higher than 50% profit margins. who is to say that people cashing in HMV vouchers at tescos will buy the type of products that HMV sell rather than just use them to buy weekly groceries? whilst kids/teenagers may be prime candidates for receipt of vouchers, their parents or other family members may well just take them and cash them in at tesco for food shopping and give the kids cash or buy them something they want from elsewhere. try thinking of the bigger picture. whilst i have a background in retail, i don't think these are too unrealistic ideas for people who haven't worked in retail to grasp


    What is more likely, is that very, very few people will have bought vouchers via tesco. Even fewer will have receipts. So they can do a gesture of 'good will' knowing it will cost very little.
    at least the same end result is predicted

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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    It seems that HMV will start honouring vouchers from tomorrow, 22 Jan 2013.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21118711
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    Re: supermarkets exchanging HMV vouchers (but read more)

    seems a deal has been made with the record companies - who have more to lose with `the` (in their opinion) name for cd business on the high street - whilst we are tech savvy and download , apparently 70% of all companies profits are made from cd sales ; so its not in their interests to see HMV fail , as the potential for a stampede off the high street and thus hurt profits.

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