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Thread: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

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    British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Cool:

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...action-381938/

    However,£20 million for 160 systems. I know military technology is not cheap,but FFS that is £125000 per deployed system!!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-02-2013 at 01:08 PM.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Well at least know you know the price the Government puts on a life?!!.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Can this be moved to the General Discussion section??

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Cool:

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...action-381938/

    However,£20 million for 160 systems. I know military technology is not cheap,but FFS that is £125000 per deployed system!!
    Well if you're looking for better value, how about this:

    http://www.ebuyer.com/451717-helo-tc...edium=products

    It even has freaking missiles!!

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Can this be moved to the General Discussion section??
    Done and while I'd never begrudge the army the money, how much!? For that little thing? Hope most of that goes into the command and control(I'm guessing some kind of encryption is probably the culprit) because looking at the copter we're gonna lose(or stand on) them quite often. Feel sorry for anyone who ends up looking for one in an Afghan opium field because of their price that's for sure. Not convinced a stack of 1-2million foam disposable ones wouldn't of been of more use, doesn't seem to have noticeably better performance but what do I know.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    http://www.gizmag.com/techject-drago...icrouav/24900/

    See the project?

    Mostly funded my the US Air Force with additional crowd funding. Under $1.5 million!

    I was having a think about it. The design is a safe one based on existing designs,so should cost less to implement. I expect most of the parts are off the shelf. In the last 20 years,high capacity battery technology,tiny HD cameras,low power SOCs,etc have massively dropped in price,since now development costs are now spread out over milliions of devices.

    Even the moulding machines for the body and blades can be expensive,but it is most likely someone is contracted to make them too.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    A few curious things on the flightglobal website...

    Described by its Norwegian developer Prox Dynamics as a "nanocopter", the 4.7in (120mm) rotor diameter PD-100 air vehicle ...
    So when you've finished spying on people with it you can use it to cool your PC

    the 16 gram PD-100 can transmit video and still imagery to a handheld terminal from a range of up to 0.5nm (1km), it says.
    Erm, I'd love to know what units that's meant to be - because a 0.5 nanometre transmission range sounds a bit poor to me...

    each Black Hornet system comprises two 4in-long air vehicles and a ground control element
    Intriguing that you only get 2 drones for each control unit - got to wonder why you can't just get spare drones. It might be related to encryption and tying drones to a particular base unit, but it sounds like profiteering from the providing company to me...

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    Bagnaj97
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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Some more info here

    Somewhat more advanced than your average toy heli from reading that and seeing the base station. Also "The initial contract is worth about $4 million, but will likely be expanded to more than $31 million." If that initial £4m is for the 160 drones that's slightly better but still £25k each! "If detected, the drones are cheap enough to be considered expendable." *twitch*

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagnaj97 View Post
    Some more info here

    Somewhat more advanced than your average toy heli from reading that and seeing the base station. Also "The initial contract is worth about $4 million, but will likely be expanded to more than $31 million." If that initial £4m is for the 160 drones that's slightly better but still £25k each! "If detected, the drones are cheap enough to be considered expendable." *twitch*
    The initial £4 million contract is not for 160 drones,the £31 million contract is,as a number have already been deployed. So that still is around £125000 each.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Looks like it's a very capable little drone, it sounds like most of the cost is for the associated gear, which could work out, it all comes down to the replacement cost of the individual drones, which they claim is affordable. From their description of the drone I'd expect them to come in at a few grand tops, which still not cheap is far more palatable. More than that and I think we may have been sold a monkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Erm, I'd love to know what units that's meant to be - because a 0.5 nanometre transmission range sounds a bit poor to me...
    Nautical miles. 0.5nm = 0.92km so it fits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    The other question is whether that 160 figures is drones, or systems. According to the flightglobal page the system comprises a base station and two drones. It also doesn't preclude the possibility that spare drones can be bought and paired to a control station.

    At $125k per system, the $4m initial contract would match the 64 drones the flight global page says have already been deployed in Afghanistan (32 systems, 2 drones per system, $125k per system = $4m). So, it looks like $125k gets you a control station and 2 drones. That means the $31m contract would be for 248 systems, totaling 496 drones. But that doesn't tally with the $31m for 160 systems previously quoted.

    Something is screwy with these figures...

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV



    That means each of the base stations costs £250000 or nearly $400000??

    Even if it costs half that,ie,its 160 systems,that is still nearly $200000!!

    Lets see how much a ruggedised Android tablet costs:

    http://www.slashgear.com/getac-unvei...blet-05245987/

    The new tablet is called the Z710 and has a seven-inch screen covered with scratch resistant Gorilla Glass. The tablet was designed to meet military specification MIL-STD 810G / IP65 to survive shock, dust, and moisture. The tablet also has an integrated SiRFstar GPS sensor. Getac equips the tablet with a glove-friendly touchscreen display and uses LumiBond technology. LumiBond technology integrates Gorilla Glass with a capacitive touch sensor and an LED panel.

    The tablet measures 8.5 x 5.6″ and is a bit over an inch thick. It weighs under 2 pounds and is designed to be transported anywhere. The tablet has integrated Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, 3G, and RF pass-through for GPS. The tablet also has an integrated HD webcam on the front and a five megapixel still camera on the rear.

    With the tablet designed to meet military standards, it promises to survive drops of up to 6 feet. It’s also able to operate in temperatures ranging from -4°F to 122°F. The tablet starts at $1499 with the 3G version selling for $1799. Shipping will start in October. This is one of the most expensive Android tablets I’ve seen.
    So with UK VAT,not even £2000.


    BTW,look again at the US nano-drone project.

    The flight computer looks like a single board computer.



    Development costs are under $1.5 million of that project with most of the funding from the US Air Force.

    So,basically not more than a million quid and the high end commerical version is around £1000 each.

    Moreover,that project seems to use more custom parts,and the design looks like it will cost more to develop as it isn't based on proven RC helicopter design.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Assuming the base station etc comes to $120k, the only thing I really know about military comms gear is that it costs a bloody fortune so that wouldn't surprise me but I can't comment on value. This allows for $2.5k drones, which seems reasonable for something available today, not tomorrow. Then 160 systems comes to $19.2m and 4720 total drones, I assume over time as indicated to replace losses. That could work, but as the drone cost goes up and the base station down the math gets real ugly real quick in terms of value for money. I just hope they haven't dazzled some Rupert from the MoD with a promise of hundreds cheap base stations and slipped the 5 figure drones past him.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    That means each of the base stations costs £250000 or nearly $400000??
    Not if the $4m initial contract cost is right. There are 64 Black Hornets already flying in Afghanistan. Assuming those 64 drones are the initial contract that is being quoted, and that the information about a "system" being a control unit and 2 drones is correct, then there are 32 systems deployed in Afghanistan, at a total cost of $4m, making each system $125,000 - around £80,000 at current exchange rates.

    Now, the total contract is quoted at $31m. Assuming it's for 160 "systems", and the figures I've outlined above are right, that's $20m for the actual units, and $11m for ... well, I think this line (from your initial link) probably covers it:

    with the company also responsible for providing personnel training, repair activities and spares.
    So, $11m is training, support, maintenance and "spares" - possibly spare drones? At about 50% of the acquisition portion of the contract it's probably not ridiculous, tbh.


    EDIT: of course, if the initial $4m includes some of the support costs, then the units are even cheaper than the £80,000 I calculated above, but the support section of the contract is bigger than $11m...

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Yeah I forgot support and training in my math. If that's included in the price then the numbers really start to look a lot better. A bit of transparency would be nice though because all we can really do is guess.

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    Re: British army gets nano-helicopter UAV

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagnaj97 View Post
    Some more info here

    Somewhat more advanced than your average toy heli from reading that and seeing the base station. Also "The initial contract is worth about $4 million, but will likely be expanded to more than $31 million." If that initial £4m is for the 160 drones that's slightly better but still £25k each! "If detected, the drones are cheap enough to be considered expendable." *twitch*
    BTW,you did joke that it seemed expensive compared to a lot of helitoys!!

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Not if the $4m initial contract cost is right. There are 64 Black Hornets already flying in Afghanistan. Assuming those 64 drones are the initial contract that is being quoted, and that the information about a "system" being a control unit and 2 drones is correct, then there are 32 systems deployed in Afghanistan, at a total cost of $4m, making each system $125,000 - around £80,000 at current exchange rates.

    Now, the total contract is quoted at $31m. Assuming it's for 160 "systems", and the figures I've outlined above are right, that's $20m for the actual units, and $11m for ... well, I think this line (from your initial link) probably covers it:



    So, $11m is training, support, maintenance and "spares" - possibly spare drones? At about 50% of the acquisition portion of the contract it's probably not ridiculous, tbh.
    Actually no. Look at the dates,the 64 systems were deployed as of October 2012 according to MoD as they were already in use in early 2012. This is a new contract which awarded in November 2012 for 160 additional systems,which probably means it is probably a follow on order.

    If you look at the tender,the first part of the new contract is for £2.5 million for a unknown number of systems.

    That still makes even deployed system £125000 or nearly $200000.



    Edit!!

    If a US Air Force funded project which appears to need more R and D can cost barely £1million,and costs barely £1000 for each unit,what the heck is the markup on this system??

    The middlemen selling this system must be making a massive amount of profit in this.

    You only need to see the billions wasted on Nimrod to show how effed up UK defence procurement is.

    There is hardly any openness about what taxpayers money is being spent on.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-02-2013 at 04:43 PM.

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