Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 20

Thread: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

  1. #1
    chown -R me ./base BlackDwarf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    On Teh Internets
    Posts
    1,431
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked
    33 times in 29 posts
    • BlackDwarf's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z77-D3H
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz w/ Corsair H100i
      • Memory:
      • 16Gb Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800
      • Storage:
      • 120Gb Samsung 850 EVO, 60Gb Crucial M4 & 2TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 550W Modular
      • Case:
      • Corsair 540 Air
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2x 24" Dell U2314H
      • Internet:
      • Sky Fiber 80Mb/20Mb

    Question Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Hi guys.

    I'm currently in a contract position through an external agency, and there were some perm jobs going within the company, so I applied and went for interview. I don't think I did terribly, and my expertise was greater than some of the people who got the job (multiple positions were available), however my beef lies with something one of the other members of staff told me.

    He said that he'd been told that he only narrowly got the job above one of the contractors (me), due to me being off sick last week. Now, I was off looking after my baby girl as my partner had terrible chicken pox and couldn't do a thing, so it wasn't even sickness. Also, as a contractor, I was only screwing myself, no days work, no money.

    I know that it's not normally a position a potential employer would be in already knowing your sickness record like that, but surely that's discrimination based on childcare arrangements, right?
    I'm sort of glad I didn't get the job, as not only are HR lowballing pay way below what I'd want, but the management and general attitude of every permanent member of staff here is beyond ridiculous. It also wouldn't surprise many of you to find out this is a certain public sector company who provides health care. No names being mentioned

    So, any leg to stand on at an industrial tribunal?
    Diablo (Main PC): Corsair Air 540; Gigabyte Z77-D3H; i5 3570k @ 4.4Ghz; 16Gb Corsair Vengeance PC3-12000; 120Gb Samsung 840 EVO; EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid; 2x Dell U2414H; Windows 10 x64.
    Imperius (VM Server): 2x Intel 5640, 64Gb RAM, 2x1Tb, 6x Intel NIC, VMware ESX 5.5
    Tyrael (File Server): Synology DS410 w/ 4x HD154UI; 2Gb RAM; DSM 5.2

  2. #2
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,748
    Thanks
    1,787
    Thanked
    3,285 times in 2,647 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    AFAIK, that's an allowed form of discrimination. Which sickens me TBH - we're faffing about with gender equality and working out how to get more women in senior positions when the reason they're often not is precisely because of child care. Hence if we can improve child care/eliminate discrimination on this then it's better for both genders and will naturally promote more equality. Grr.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    977
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked
    48 times in 39 posts
    • GeorgeStorm's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI Z77IA-E53
      • CPU:
      • i5 3450
      • Memory:
      • 8gb DDR3 1866mhz C10
      • Storage:
      • 256gb SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GTX780
      • PSU:
      • Silverstone 450W SFX
      • Case:
      • Parvum mitx
      • Operating System:
      • W10
      • Monitor(s):
      • U2711 + U2311H

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    I may be misunderstanding, and so I apologise if I am, but in my mind if there's the chance you'll have to take a fair amount of time off in order to look after your kids or whatever, then that seems a fair enough reason not to hire?

  4. #4
    chown -R me ./base BlackDwarf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    On Teh Internets
    Posts
    1,431
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked
    33 times in 29 posts
    • BlackDwarf's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z77-D3H
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz w/ Corsair H100i
      • Memory:
      • 16Gb Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800
      • Storage:
      • 120Gb Samsung 850 EVO, 60Gb Crucial M4 & 2TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 550W Modular
      • Case:
      • Corsair 540 Air
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2x 24" Dell U2314H
      • Internet:
      • Sky Fiber 80Mb/20Mb

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    No, I don't usually have to skip out to look after her. Chicken pox in adults (especially one who didn't have it as a child) is particularly horrendous, and she was physically incapable of looking after her. It's certainly not something that would happen regularly, if ever again.
    Diablo (Main PC): Corsair Air 540; Gigabyte Z77-D3H; i5 3570k @ 4.4Ghz; 16Gb Corsair Vengeance PC3-12000; 120Gb Samsung 840 EVO; EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid; 2x Dell U2414H; Windows 10 x64.
    Imperius (VM Server): 2x Intel 5640, 64Gb RAM, 2x1Tb, 6x Intel NIC, VMware ESX 5.5
    Tyrael (File Server): Synology DS410 w/ 4x HD154UI; 2Gb RAM; DSM 5.2

  5. #5
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,164
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Just sounds like they picked a reason and ran with it.

    I wouldn't get too worked up about something such as this, as it quite probably isn't the real reason they didn't want you anyway.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  6. #6
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDwarf View Post
    ....

    So, any leg to stand on at an industrial tribunal?
    IMHO, probably not. Your "evidence", as I understand it, is that one of those that got the job told you that someone told him that that was why?

    Will that person confirm that to a tribunal? And even if he will, the person that he claims told him can deny it, or say he misunderstood.


    And that's even assuming that if exactly as reported, that it's a valid claim for discrimination, and that the company can't come up with other reasons justifying their decision, and some of them could be hard to quantify, like "better team player", or "more management potential".

    And, finally, going to a tribunal can, believe me, have a considerably adverse effect on your future employment prospects, if a future employer hears of it. I know of specific instances where it WAS, on it's own, why a CV was binned.


    I am not, however, a lawyer, so it's just the opinion of some bloke on the web. If you feel strongly enough (and it doesn't seem like you do), you really need to talk to an employment lawyer.

  7. #7
    Account closed at user request
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Elephant watch camp
    Posts
    2,150
    Thanks
    56
    Thanked
    115 times in 103 posts
    • wasabi's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B85M-G43
      • CPU:
      • i3-4130
      • Memory:
      • 8 gig DDR3 Crucial Rendition 1333 - cheap!
      • Storage:
      • 128 gig Agility 3, 240GB Corsair Force 3
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Zotac GTX 750Ti
      • PSU:
      • Silver Power SP-S460FL
      • Case:
      • Lian Li T60 testbanch
      • Operating System:
      • Win7 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • First F301GD Live
      • Internet:
      • Virgin cable 100 meg

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Employers only really ge a small snapshot view of what someone is likely to be like, no matter how good the interview process. Frankly I'd get spooked too that you were going to be disappearing off all the time. Look at it from the other side of the fence - as someone with no kids i spend half my working life getting crapped on by parents disappearing off to look after their kids, covering maternity leave and so on.

  8. #8
    HEXUS.social member finlay666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    8,546
    Thanks
    297
    Thanked
    894 times in 535 posts
    • finlay666's system
      • CPU:
      • 3570k
      • Memory:
      • 16gb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 6950 2gb
      • Case:
      • Fractal R3
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8
      • Monitor(s):
      • U2713HM and V222H
      • Internet:
      • cable

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Do they know why you were taking sick leave, or just that you took some?

    If it's just that you took sick leave it sounds like a reason for the sake of having one
    H3XU5 Social FAQ
    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerai View Post
    I do like a bit of hot crumpet

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,119
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked
    94 times in 88 posts

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    it's not illegal discrimination, so there isn't anything you can do about it

    if they discriminated based on age/sex/race/disability then that would be illegal, and then the points about you being able to prove it being the reason come into effect - which are VERY hard to do, but it's perfectly legal discrimination, if that's what you want to call it

    effectively in an interview situation, an employer is looking to narrow down applicants to one person by using a set of criteria of their choice, much of which can be discrimination of one way or another. you don't like they way they look or act in the interview, you don't like this, you don't like that, you prefer the other person instead. you can opt not to employ one person because they are too fat, or ginger, or too short, or too skinny, too tall, or too loud. you can have your policy never to employ people you consider too fat or too tall, and that's perfectly legal, even if it means the more qualified and experienced people don't get jobs

    but sometimes an employer may not want the most qualified or experienced person, as sometimes those aren't the most suited people for a post, for a number of reasons really. that person may be more able and inclined to ladder jump and not stick around if the job isn't challenging enough and you don't offer considerably better salaries than others

    also, even in an interview stage, what an interviewer tells an interviewee may not necessarily be the full truth. so what they told the person who told you, may not be the truth. the person who told you may be truthful in repeating what they were told, but they weren't told the truth. or they could have picked up the wrong end of the stick

    for example, in an interview when you realise the person isn't what you are looking for, you want to wrap it up quickly, but without alarming the other person, so sometimes you may say you want XYZ and dislike ABC in an employee, even if it's not fully true, giving the person an indication of the reason they won't get the job, before they are formally told later, so they don't leave the interview with high hopes. some interviewers may do the opposite as they want to seem nice and don't like making people feel bad when they leave. not all interviewers are greatly experienced in interviewing. one day they may have been a bog standard whatever, and at some point they are promoted to manager and then responsible for interviewing staff, which they've not done before. so you can't rely on good practice to take place in an interview

    but from an employers perspective, it's sounds like a common and legal reason not to employ or promote someone if they don't think they can rely on them due to taking time off work. some employers frown upon this a lot. others are more forgiving. you have your right to time off for dependants, but many employers don't like that if it affects workload

  10. Received thanks from:

    csgohan4 (07-03-2013)

  11. #10
    The Old Fox csgohan4's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Fox Hole
    Posts
    1,057
    Thanks
    172
    Thanked
    57 times in 52 posts
    • csgohan4's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI Z97 Gaming 9 AC
      • CPU:
      • I7 4770K with Noctua-D15
      • Memory:
      • G SKILL 2400Mhz 8GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 840 Evo 500 GB| Seagate 1TB + 1.5TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 780 ACX
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX 860
      • Case:
      • HAF X with NF-S12B FLX, TY-140, X4 Coolermaster Megaflow 200mm and Demciflex Dust Flters
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8.1 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG 24inch LCD W2468L
      • Internet:
      • Sky Fibre Unlimited with Asus DSL N66U

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Good view from Unique, at the end of the day I wouldn't focus too much on hear say and just focus on yourself, on things you could improve on so you don't give the interviewer a chance to disgard you.

    If you have honestly tried your best at interviews and you have beefed up your CV as much as you can then you should be able to sleep at night and question whether that job is right for you or whether it is their loss.

    Saracen also does have a point regarding 'blacklisted' if your the sort of person to make complaints all the time and takign employers to court. You will garner a bad reputation for youself irrespective if the previous employers are in the wrong. As they will see you as too much trouble to employ.
    Last edited by csgohan4; 07-03-2013 at 03:26 PM.
    Trust Profile HEXUS Forum FAQ and Colour coding/Post Count awards

    'The Fox is cunning and relentless, and has got his Fibre Optic Broadband'

  12. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,119
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked
    94 times in 88 posts

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    ^ yeah, i would never want to employ someone if i knew they took a previous employer to a tribunal or they were a trouble maker or had a falling out with a previous employer. usually you would never know this, but sometimes at interviews when you ask someone why they left, they will start moaning about the previous employer, which is never a good sign, as one day you will be the previous employer and the employee is likely to be moaning about you. there are usually two sides to a story, but usually each person thinks they are right, even when they are wrong

    i've never worked for the perfect employer, no company is perfect, so there will always be something someone will find to moan about, so i don't want to risk employing someone that's a complainer, as one day they may be complaining about me

    in fact one time i got a job, and i was told i got the job as i was the only person who didn't complain about the previous/current employer, and i spoke positively about my current employer and reasons for wanting to leave (as he couldn't afford to keep me and another guy on, one had to go).

  13. #12
    The Old Fox csgohan4's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Fox Hole
    Posts
    1,057
    Thanks
    172
    Thanked
    57 times in 52 posts
    • csgohan4's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI Z97 Gaming 9 AC
      • CPU:
      • I7 4770K with Noctua-D15
      • Memory:
      • G SKILL 2400Mhz 8GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 840 Evo 500 GB| Seagate 1TB + 1.5TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 780 ACX
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX 860
      • Case:
      • HAF X with NF-S12B FLX, TY-140, X4 Coolermaster Megaflow 200mm and Demciflex Dust Flters
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8.1 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG 24inch LCD W2468L
      • Internet:
      • Sky Fibre Unlimited with Asus DSL N66U

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Look at the Apprentice Winner here Stella English who took Lord Sugar to court, fat chance she will get a well paid job again... ever

    Ultimately there will always be a glass ceiling to women, those who take time off for childcare/ sickness and ethic minorities, sometimes we have to just shrug our shoulders and get on with it
    Trust Profile HEXUS Forum FAQ and Colour coding/Post Count awards

    'The Fox is cunning and relentless, and has got his Fibre Optic Broadband'

  14. #13
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,748
    Thanks
    1,787
    Thanked
    3,285 times in 2,647 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by csgohan4 View Post
    Look at the Apprentice Winner here Stella English who took Lord Sugar to court, fat chance she will get a well paid job again... ever
    I don't know. There's a whole bunch of people who would be happy to employ someone who took on Sugar I'm sure

    Ultimately there will always be a glass ceiling to women, those who take time off for childcare/ sickness and ethic minorities, sometimes we have to just shrug our shoulders and get on with it
    NO. That's absolutely unacceptable. There will not always be a glass ceiling, and shrugging shoulders/getting on with it is complicit in allowing it to continue.

  15. #14
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,164
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    NO. That's absolutely unacceptable. There will not always be a glass ceiling, and shrugging shoulders/getting on with it is complicit in allowing it to continue.
    Actually cruel as it is, it is true, and ultimately there isn't a very fair solution too it.

    If you believe that the best person should be in the best job, you have to consider that absences, lack of long term commitment don't equal best. You can't change that.

    The thing is we need to change our society so that woman aren't automatically expected to take long maternety leave, instead paternety should be an equal option. There really is no need for it to be the woman to take the time off (baring certain medical complications). Ultimately its the assumption that the woman must be abscent, that really hurts the progress.

    There is also the other issue that simply lots of woman do not go in to highly paid roles, you don't see them in the bottom of the rung for them either. A classic example is one of my old uni lecturers would frequently remind us (espesually if there was an open bar) that in her day, women did computer programming becuase it was a vocational soft form of the maths department, tiedious work such as punchcarding was considered suitable for them.

    Yet you see a complete abscense in so many well paid jobs which offer such good promotions. The gender splits for certain degrees say it all, the fact many choose a soft humanities subject, yet so few sensior executives ever read such easy stuff at uni.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  16. #15
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,748
    Thanks
    1,787
    Thanked
    3,285 times in 2,647 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    The thing is we need to change our society so that woman aren't automatically expected to take long maternety leave, instead paternety should be an equal option. There really is no need for it to be the woman to take the time off (baring certain medical complications). Ultimately its the assumption that the woman must be abscent, that really hurts the progress.
    Spot on.

  17. #16
    jim
    jim is offline
    HEXUS.clueless jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Location: Location:
    Posts
    11,435
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked
    1,639 times in 1,304 posts
    • jim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z
      • CPU:
      • i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Sandisk SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ASUS GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX650
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT03
      • Operating System:
      • 8.1 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2716DG
      • Internet:
      • 10 Mbps ADSL

    Re: Missed job offer due to childcare priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    The thing is we need to change our society so that woman aren't automatically expected to take long maternety leave, instead paternety should be an equal option. There really is no need for it to be the woman to take the time off (baring certain medical complications). Ultimately its the assumption that the woman must be abscent, that really hurts the progress.
    Yep, another vote here. I've been wondering for a few years now why that isn't already the case.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •