Guns in America: we move onward into a new level of special thinking...

[xodianbarr]

Or, they just don't agree with you that it isn't. Nor do I.

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I. But let me point this out:

In America people want to own guns to protect themselves against criminals? So what do you think the criminal is going to do? Do you think they'll think twice? If a criminal is going to commit a crime knowing that every other hill billy up and down the country has a gun, do you think he might consider leaving his at home? More likely he'll think 'I need bigger weapons, or / and more people in my team. So whats next? Everyone owns an UZI and forms a military encampment wherever they go? AND THEN what will the criminals do? Do you get my point?

[TeePee]

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I. But let me point this out:

In America people want to own guns to protect themselves against criminals? So what do you think the criminal is going to do? Do you think they'll think twice? If a criminal is going to commit a crime knowing that every other hill billy up and down the country has a gun, do you think he might consider leaving his at home? More likely he'll think 'I need bigger weapons, or / and more people in my team. So whats next? Everyone owns an UZI and forms a military encampment wherever they go? AND THEN what will the criminals do? Do you get my point?

What do the criminals do? Mostly, break into empty houses and cars. In areas where guns are more available to the victims, violent crime goes down while property crime goes up.

[TeePee]

Touche`. Which would you prefer? To be shot or raped? If the attacker has a gun, all you need (or can) do is comply, and hope that you will come out the other end in one piece. Soon as you pull out 'your' weapon. Violence is inevitable, and death becomes a much more likely outcome.

The death of the rapist certainly becomes a more likely outcome. Maybe he would kill me. But the fact that his potential victims would be able to fight back makes it far less likely that he would attack anyone in the first place. Or at least, so the facts show.

[xodianbarr]

The death of the rapist certainly becomes a more likely outcome. Maybe he would kill me. But the fact that his potential victims would be able to fight back makes it far less likely that he would attack anyone in the first place. Or at least, so the facts show.

What facts? From where i'm sitting, the facts show that in America everyone has guns to 'protect themselves', and as a result there are more gun related deaths per capita than anywhere else in the world.

[Jay]

Where do you get your facts from? I don't think America does have the highest per capita

[xodianbarr]

Yeah, it was an ill informed generalised comment, and i was wrong. My apologies. Apparently there are some even MORE cutthroat countries out there even that the US!

Although the US IS the highest ranking 1st world country with firearms related deaths.

[TeePee]

America is quite far down the list. Below Mexico, unsurprisingly, where guns are banned. Do you think there might be something else going on? Switzerland is near the bottom of the list, despite a very high rate of gun ownership. Maybe picking and choosing very different countries isn't a great argument for, well, anything..

My facts come from crime reports, as analysed by John Lott. The data used is freely available.

[xodianbarr]

lol. I havent really relied on facts in this discussion. Mainly opinions close to my heart. Im aware of the disproportionate gun crime statistics in the US compared to with the UK (both being first world countries), but its not a subject i know in depth (statistically). Socialogically and Philosophically however, i am more at home.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

America is quite far down the list. Below Mexico, unsurprisingly, where guns are banned. Do you think there might be something else going on? Switzerland is near the bottom of the list, despite a very high rate of gun ownership. Maybe picking and choosing very different countries isn't a great argument for, well, anything..

My facts come from crime reports, as analysed by John Lott. The data used is freely available.

Mexico is in the middle of something akin to an insurgency due to its drug war. For a rich country,with no large scale civil war or insurgency the US has a problem,which is deep rooted. If anything Switzerland highlights the major issues the US has.

Perhaps instead of people reaching for a gun first,like an idiot, to solve their problems,perhaps more dialogue or other methods maybe??

It sounds like a failure of the education system to me.

[TeePee]

I would certainly agree that America has many problems.

While the gun-violence rate is much higher than the UK, the violent crime rate is not. While direct comparisons like the daily fails 'Six times higher' are obviously not correct, the recent slew of fact-checking these government statistics suggest like-for-like violent crime in the UK is around twice the US.

I would agree that one of the biggest problems the US has is a horrific education system. Many parents use schools for day care rather than to educate their children, and ignorance breeds.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The thing is though a gun is a ranged weapon designed to kill,which is much harder to defend against than a knife,and you do probably have a better chance of survival too in the latter case.

The US had 13000 homicides in 2012 with a population of 314 milllion,and the UK had 722 homicides for a population of 63 milion. Not all of these would have been down to guns or knives though,but it sort of indicates an issue - in the US if a violent crime is done against you,there is a much bigger possibility of you dying.

This is why if a country,has relatively free availability of guns,there needs to be better education,regarding the usage of guns. People should think of guns as a last resort,not a first resort. Easier said than done,but at least someone needs to set the ball rolling.

The problem is though,the two sides,ie,the extremely pro-gun and the extremely anti-gun people,don't seem to really want to work together.

[xodianbarr]

The thing is though a gun is a ranged weapon designed to kill,which is much harder to defend against than a knife,and you do probably have a better chance of survival too in the latter case.

The US had 13000 homicides in 2012 with a population of 314 milllion,and the UK had 722 homicides for a population of 63 milion. Not all of these would have been down to guns or knives though,but it sort of indicates an issue - in the US if a violent crime is done against you,there is a much bigger possibility of you dying.

This is why if a country,has relatively free availability of guns,there needs to be better education,regarding the usage of guns. People should think of guns as a last resort,not a first resort. Easier said than done,but at least someone needs to set the ball rolling.

The problem is though,the two sides,ie,the extremely pro-gun and the extremely anti-gun people,don't seem to really want to work together.

A frickin' A1 awesome comment!

[xodianbarr]

I just deplore violence. Nothing anyone will ever say will justify the right to own a gun to me. I respect the reasons why some people feel they need to own them, though i dont agree with it philosophically. I believe there's always another way, it just depends on the strength of people to try to find an alternative, instead of resorting to a last ditch method. Why do armies have guns? To protect the nation from its potential aggressors and deter them from aggressive acts. But of course, this incites the 'potential aggressors' to also arm themselves, in what they justify as being the same reasons. To me it's just a ridiculous ideology. The more people who arm themselves against imagined aggression, the more likely things will get ugly when that aggression occurs. China is fast becoming the largest economic power in the world. In fact it wont be long at all before it overtakes America as the number 1 superpower. So what is America going to do? Are people going to sit silent if / or / and when America steps up its military capabilities? Would that resolve a conflict further down the line? If you ask me, the future does not look good. Nor does it look orange.

[Jay]

Spend a few weeks in Alaska and you will understand why people need to own a gun.

[pp05]

It is cultural and deep rooted. It will take them many decades to undo it culturally.

The context for allowing guns in the first place is no longer there for many therefore negating the argument that is a constitutional right. However, I think there are places/context where it is needed/preferable. Just not densely urbanized environments as a rule of thumb.

If 200 or so years ago our monarch fearing future uprising didn't have weapons confiscated/ban in place we would have an entirely different history in the UK today. Instead it doesn't enter our conversation unless we are talking video games.

[xodianbarr]

Spend a few weeks in Alaska and you will understand why people need to own a gun.

A typical comment made by someone who can clearly 'not' think of an alternative solution