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About LinkBacksits a war zone , and unlike the west (who have never let in inspectors to any disputed action - ever) at least the Syrian government have done....
Syrian government
Fake
Premeditated attack by rebels
its a war zone , and unlike the west (who have never let in inspectors to any disputed action - ever) at least the Syrian government have done....
But that on it's own raises questions.
The Assad government had already allowed inspectors into Damascus, but held up on letting them into the alleged chemical attack area. That raises the question .... why not?
As for the bigger picture, my view is as it was days ago.
1) Was there a chemical attack? It looks VERY likely.
2) Who did it? Dunno.
Two things.Originally Posted by HalloweenJack
First, what evidence/proof that it was rebels shooting? All I've seen is "unidentified snipers".
Second, it's not like the "rebels" are one unified and cohesive group. It could well be that internal Syrian opposition had nothing to do with that sniping, but that imported jihadists did. This is not a straight government versus rebel fight, but rather, goverment on one side, and several opposing groups that agree they want the government out, but not on much else. The same point about "who" could be said of Assad's side .... regular Syrian army, maybe not, but Hezbollah elements??
One of the most dangerous elements if the whole mess is the multiplicity of disparate elements involved. There is certainly an element of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend .... but might not be next week."
Pleiades (28-08-2013)
Lots of rumours about a Western military response in the coming days are rumbling...
What if they can't ensure their safety?? If anyone of them were shot in the crossfire,then the next headlines would be about how Assad murdered poor UN inspectors,by allowing them to die,etc.
Was that ever in doubt?? They do really need to keep those retirement options open,don't they.
Middle east peace envoy is already taken.Was that ever in doubt?? They do really need to keep those retirement options open,don't they.
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Yes significant forces are being massed. 2 US CBG's near theatre(One armed with brand new SEAD and ECM birds, perfect for Syria), along with the US 6th Fleet in med and at least one SSGN(same class used to crush Libyan defences), RN RTFG and Lead Commando Group(COUGAR 13) moving into the med, rumoured to have SAS with them. France's supercarrier is in the med too. Reports of large SF deployments on their borders have been circulating for months now too, rumoured to be over 10k US alone as far back as December. Of course along with everything else that's kept in the middle east permanently.
Everything you could need for Libya Mk 2. Be a much bigger fight this time and there's the issue there's not really anyone we'd want to be friends with fighting right now. There isn't a strong secular democratic force as others have already alluded to and the net effect of any intervention will be choosing a winner. It's a quagmire already.
As for who did what. Who knows. There's no group/side in Syria right now that I think wouldn't do it if they thought it would benefit them, sadly.
Smily Teeth got that one IIRC. Of course,some arnaments and construction firms probably have a few vacancies open on their board of directors in the next few years(probably), and I assume the talks circuit might need some fresh blood and some sponsership. Plus a few family members and friends might need jobs/more money in these harsh economic times. Couldn't have them drinking non-vintage champagne,could we!
There is still a significant number of Russian naval units in the region:
http://www.examiner.com/article/poss...ean-task-force
It looks like Russia and China have warned against any premeditated attack:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ns-Russia.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23845800
After Libya,I think we have unfortunately created a situation where both Russia and China won't back down,even if it was the reason of saving face.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 27-08-2013 at 05:55 PM.
Would you back down from George Cameron ?Smily Teeth got that one IIRC. Of course,some arnaments and construction firms probably have a few vacancies open on their board of directors in the next few years(probably), and I assume the talks circuit might need some fresh blood and some sponsership. Plus a few family members and friends might need jobs/more money in these harsh economic times. Couldn't have them drinking non-vintage champagne,could we!
There is still a significant number of Russian naval units in the region:
http://www.examiner.com/article/poss...ean-task-force
It looks like Russia and China have warned against any premeditated attack:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ns-Russia.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23845800
After Libya,I think we have unfortunately created a situation where both Russia and China won't back down,even if it was the reason of saving face.
So Kerry seems to be asserting that if an attack took place, it must be the regime because US intelligence says they still control all the chemical weapons. Our govt seems to be asserting that should a chemical attack have taken place, it would represent a normalisation of the use of these kinds of weapons, and thereby indirectly threaten the security of the UK if there is not some kind of action to counter this normalisation. Thus covering their backs legally by using the 'threat to own nations security' clause to justify actions of war.
They are saying that the attack was by Assad's brother?
Tony Blair is asking us to go and fight them and the SAS are allegedly already there looking for missiles.
Cameron is chairing a meeting with the NSC today, and the outcome will probably to send a load of troops over there...
It's all pretty messed up.
Politics is were the working man pays his hard earned money to a group of clueless people to make suspect decisions.
Don't worry in 2015 we will be attacking North Korea. After two years without a big profitable war(for them) it would affect the retirement bonuses. Oh wait a second! North Korea has a few nukes..bugger!
Looks like Iran then,but wait a second are they not supposedly developing nukes??
So,I wonder why so many countries want to develop nukes then??
Its hilarious how our governments bleet on about the international community, and yet bypasses it when when it is not convenient.
Yet we the public foot the bill in the short term and then in the long term will have to suffer the consequences,ie,like with the fundamentalists,etc. By then all the idiots wo have made the W-PEEN extending descisions have buggered off,enjoying their final value pensions,and on the board of some large company enjoying their "retirement" in style,and probably have their own private security. The rest of us are hit with more taxes,less services,more debt,a higher cost of living,pays which are starting to stagnate and a greater chance of terrorism affecting our lives.
We are in the middle of the worst recession for decades and out country has over £900 BILLION DEBT!!
If we are going to spend billions more on "helping people" by bombing countries to dust, it would make more sense to use that money in other ways like poverty alleviation programmes and disease treatment programmes in the dozens of peaceful but very poor countries in the world. That would maximise the amount of people helped.
It somewhat reminds me of the twits in charge in Black Adder 4. They are on some other planet.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-08-2013 at 09:59 AM.
Pleiades (28-08-2013)
david baboon has 18 months left before he is out of a job
a yougov poll for the sun showed
70% of those polled (and I was 1 - got the email invitation 2 days ago) do not want UK action against Syria and also do not want to arm the rebels (a similar percentage wanted the uk to stay well away from this mess)
wonder if dave will pay attention....
Last edited by HalloweenJack; 28-08-2013 at 11:53 AM. Reason: spelling
When has what the public thought ever been important to them?? Only time it even makes a blip is during election time.
maybe we need a good old fashioned rebellion....
ofc though , who will be the first to use those `bucket of instant sunshine`.... and over who`s real estate
Don't need to go that far TBH. They just need to make a law that bans MPs from being in certain positions after they leave for say 20 years. That way it reduces the impact of lobbying. Also,ministers should have experience in the areas they are ministers,with an additional supervisory board for the most important positions.
If ministers eff up big time,they should be investigated by an independent committee with the potential of legal and criminal action taken towards them.
To put it bluntly,they are made responsible for their actions and loosing the election is not good enough.
Pleiades (28-08-2013)
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