Waking up groggy - high CO2 levels in bedroom?

[Marcos]

I think my building/room has no breathing/vents other than the windows. Anyone else investigated something similar?

I'm finding a pretty big difference between sleeping with the window open or shut, which probably wouldn't be that big a deal in a well ventilated room, but this room has no vents or gaps or anything other than the window and the door. I reckon if I closed the window fully and shut the door and tried to live in here for a full 24hours i might pass out


Anyhow, to be scientific I'd like to get hold of some sort of CO2 sensor, but don't know where to begin.

[kalniel]

CO2 is not the problem, you won't feel groggy with it at all (quite the opposite - your body lets you know vigorously if CO2 levels are too high). CO is what you should watch for if you have something generating it (ie a fire). You can get CO sensors, but if there's nothing generating it then that's probably not your issue.

[DDY]

I too doubt CO2 is causing you a problem.

I think you should check humidity levels first because dry air can cause dehydration, of which grogginess is a symptom.

You can get relative humidity meters delivered for less than a fiver, worth having around even if humidity isn't the problem.

[Marcos]

CO2 is not the problem, you won't feel groggy with it at all (quite the opposite - your body lets you know vigorously if CO2 levels are too high). CO is what you should watch for if you have something generating it (ie a fire). You can get CO sensors, but if there's nothing generating it then that's probably not your issue.

What happens to a person if they are just stuck in a bubble with the same air? Wouldn't there eventually be a lack of oxygen and an excess of CO2?

I'm not worried about fires etc, the fire-alarm system in this block is trigger happy and we don't have gas, just electric.

[Marcos]

I too doubt CO2 is causing you a problem.

I think you should check humidity levels first because dry air can cause dehydration, of which grogginess is a symptom.

You can get relative humidity meters delivered for less than a fiver, worth having around even if humidity isn't the problem.

Something like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MT-903-Min...item1e7bcf4cfb

Not sure where to get it that cheap though.

EDIT:

Something like this?

http://thermometer.co.uk/1037-therma...ndication.html

[TheAnimus]

Why this focus on CO2?



Kinda irrelevant.

If you think you are sleeping badly due to lack of oxygen. Get an oxymeter, they are cheap (<£20) and useful for other things too.

[kalniel]

What happens to a person if they are just stuck in a bubble with the same air? Wouldn't there eventually be a lack of oxygen and an excess of CO2?

Yes, but they won't feel groggy, the CO2 build up would eventually (and it'd take a while) have them manically clawing at the walls to get out. Note there would still be plenty of O2 at this point, so they'd have no problem with said clawing...

[AETAaAS]

Gasses diffuse very readily and you will probably be surprised about the amount of air which moves even through the gap around your door. Even so, you only use about a quarter of the oxygen you take in every breath and the tidal volume (each breath) is tiny compared to your room.

Could it be heat? I don't sleep well if it is warm. And I open the windows for that reason.

[TheAnimus]

Something like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MT-903-Min...item1e7bcf4cfb

Not sure where to get it that cheap though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-LC...30926202107%26

£4 inc delviery

[DDY]

Something like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MT-903-Min...item1e7bcf4cfb

Not sure where to get it that cheap though.

EDIT:

Something like this?

http://thermometer.co.uk/1037-therma...ndication.html

Nah, cheaper!

Something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Th...-/350824045470

They're not very accurate or even that well built, but it's good enough.

[Marcos]

Why this focus on CO2?



Kinda irrelevant.

If you think you are sleeping badly due to lack of oxygen. Get an oxymeter, they are cheap (<£20) and useful for other things too.

I was going on this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6184828AA2J31F

I've done what you want to do -- and it isn't what you think. The oxygen levels aren't the issue - they remain high. The problem is the carbon dioxide level. Changes in breathing rates, feeling tired and stuffiness is due to the CO2 because of human biochemistry. If you look up some medical texts on respiration you will find lots on this topic and why we are much more sensitive to CO2 than oxygen.

But this guy could be talking BS

[Marcos]

Gasses diffuse very readily and you will probably be surprised about the amount of air which moves even through the gap around your door. Even so, you only use about a quarter of the oxygen you take in every breath and the tidal volume (each breath) is tiny compared to your room.

Could it be heat? I don't sleep well if it is warm. And I open the windows for that reason.

Temperature is fine, sun doesn't hit my room until 11am or so, it's like getting out of a mini coma some mornings. But I swear I don't feel quite so bad waking in other places.

[kalniel]

I was going on this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6184828AA2J31F



But this guy could be talking BS

He's basically right. As I mentioned above, if you're in a bubble your body will react to the rising CO2 levels well before O2 levels become a problem. But tiredness isn't a symptom - breathing faster, increased heart rate are - they aren't what you'd call groggy!

Simple experiment to check - hold your breath (naturally). What makes you stop holding your breath? What did that feel like? Any effect is almost entirely due to increasing CO2 levels in your lungs, and if you remove the CO2 those effects vanish*.


*yes, science at Cambridge is an evil subject with a fondness for making students experiment on themselves...

[scaryjim]

Could be worse, my 3rd year Bio teacher made me inhale & exhale air in a jar over water to test this. After one recycled breath you can't really tell the difference: two starts to feel a little odd, after the third it's downright awful and a struggle to make yourself breathe the air again.

Even assuming a very small bedroom (6' x 4' x 8' high), you have more than 5000l of air available. Average tidal volume is around 0.5l, so you could breathe 10000 times before you'd "breathed" all the air in your room once - more than 20 breaths per minute during an 8 hour sleep, which would be a very high resting breath rate. Only, as I said, after one recycled breath you can't really tell the difference - so you'd probably have to breathe at at least twice that rate - in a hermetically sealed, very small, room, let's remember - for CO2 concentrations in your room to become noticable.

As others say, too much CO2 wouldn't cause grogginess and tiredness anyway. You might experience those from oxygen starvation, but you'd have to breathe all the air in your room around 5 times before there wasn't enough oxygen left in it - highly unlikely. Dehydration is definitely a possibility: try drinking more water during the day and sleeping with the window closed. Or if you're not eating enough you could be waking up with low blood sugar, which can also manifest as grogginess - try having a bite of supper.

One last possibility: is the room recently redecorated? A lot of paints give off VOCs well past the point where you could smell them, and it might be with the window closed they're building up enough to mess with your sleep patterns, even if you can't detect a smell. Similar thought to CO, but probably less dangerous in the long run!

[Domestic_Ginger]

Dust, square eyes, diet, late nights or getting old?

Could be hay fever.

No idea really but CO2 shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Marcos]

Could be worse, my 3rd year Bio teacher made me inhale & exhale air in a jar over water to test this. After one recycled breath you can't really tell the difference: two starts to feel a little odd, after the third it's downright awful and a struggle to make yourself breathe the air again.

Even assuming a very small bedroom (6' x 4' x 8' high), you have more than 5000l of air available. Average tidal volume is around 0.5l, so you could breathe 10000 times before you'd "breathed" all the air in your room once - more than 20 breaths per minute during an 8 hour sleep, which would be a very high resting breath rate. Only, as I said, after one recycled breath you can't really tell the difference - so you'd probably have to breathe at at least twice that rate - in a hermetically sealed, very small, room, let's remember - for CO2 concentrations in your room to become noticable.

As others say, too much CO2 wouldn't cause grogginess and tiredness anyway. You might experience those from oxygen starvation, but you'd have to breathe all the air in your room around 5 times before there wasn't enough oxygen left in it - highly unlikely. Dehydration is definitely a possibility: try drinking more water during the day and sleeping with the window closed. Or if you're not eating enough you could be waking up with low blood sugar, which can also manifest as grogginess - try having a bite of supper.

One last possibility: is the room recently redecorated? A lot of paints give off VOCs well past the point where you could smell them, and it might be with the window closed they're building up enough to mess with your sleep patterns, even if you can't detect a smell. Similar thought to CO, but probably less dangerous in the long run!

Interesting. Ok, so I'm pretty good with the hydration but the air in this place is definitely on the low-humidity side, clothes dry in no time. Not recently decorated, so ruling that out. I eat pretty big and can't go to bed on an empty stomach. On the other hand, I could have blood sugar issues and not know it.

I think one of these sensors is the best next step.