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Thread: Vote....or else!

  1. #17
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Aus also has PR
    That would make a difference, but then again with PR we might get a more involved electorate anyway. But I still don't think forcing people to vote is the way to go.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    This made me laugh, obviously not safe for work:

    http://dontbea****ingidiot.com/

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    That would make a difference, but then again with PR we might get a more involved electorate anyway. But I still don't think forcing people to vote is the way to go.
    It is compulsory for you to volunteer to vote :screwy:

    I don't have a problem with trying to get more people engaged with the system. Just not our current system. PR suits compulsory voting FPtP does not.
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    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
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    Re: Vote....or else!

    I think if they ever tried to force people to vote in this country you'd end up with some bizare election results as people would protest vote.
    What are the choices?
    Prat number 1 or Prat number 2?
    Little difference between them and they'll both annoy you anyway.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    I think if they ever tried to force people to vote in this country you'd end up with some bizare election results as people would protest vote.
    What are the choices?
    Prat number 1 or Prat number 2?
    Little difference between them and they'll both annoy you anyway.

    But if they had PR, you could vote for a non-prat and there would be a good chance they actually would get representation in parliament. That is one of the reasons why the current UK system is so bad. And we shafted ourselves by voting out PR in a moronic childish spite-vote not long ago.

    Don't get me wrong - PR has problems too. Deals done to form coalitions can give undue weight to the policies of small minorities.

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    Senior Member Andy3536's Avatar
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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    But if they had PR, you could vote for a non-prat and there would be a good chance they actually would get representation in parliament. That is one of the reasons why the current UK system is so bad. And we shafted ourselves by voting out PR in a moronic childish spite-vote not long ago.

    Don't get me wrong - PR has problems too. Deals done to form coalitions can give undue weight to the policies of small minorities.
    You could vote for a non-prat without PR if there was one. PR or not is irrelevant. People don't vote due to voter apathy.
    If you don't feel people are worth voting for, why should you?

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Would compulsory voting bring about electoral reform? While people don't have to vote they can ignore the problem. If everyone had to would they not be motivated to refine/reform the process?
    No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were displaced and terribly inconvenienced.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    You could vote for a non-prat without PR if there was one. PR or not is irrelevant. People don't vote due to voter apathy.
    If you don't feel people are worth voting for, why should you?
    Watch the video posted earlier - part of the problem of having first past the post is you pretty much always end up with a 2 party system. Therefore two 'prats' who are trying to be all things to all people - i.e. unprincipled doofuses.

    While I can see why compulsory voting might be good in some ways, as a principle having compulsory anything is hard to justify to me.

    Being devil's advocate however, surely if you are part of a civilised society it is the bare minimum civic duty to go out and vote? Many countries have much more onerous civic duties (national service anyone?) In most democracies we pay over pretty much 50 percent of our personal incomes to the government. It provides schools, healthcare, a legal system, cleans the streets, police, armed forces. With so much of what would otherwise be an individual's contribution to society contracted out, surely there is a case for at least having a mandatory decision as to which contractor gets chosen?

    In the digital age I see a role for direct democracy. Perhaps as a replacement for the House of Lords. i.e. doesn't make laws, but examines new laws coming from the Commons. Everyone gets a login, everyone gets a vote. There would need to be some limits to stop geeks and extremists / activists logjamming the system - maybe individuals can only vote 5 times a year or something like that.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy3536 View Post
    You could vote for a non-prat without PR if there was one. PR or not is irrelevant. People don't vote due to voter apathy.
    If you don't feel people are worth voting for, why should you?
    Because if you remove yourself from the system you can never improve it?
    No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were displaced and terribly inconvenienced.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    But if they had PR, you could vote for a non-prat and there would be a good chance they actually would get representation in parliament. That is one of the reasons why the current UK system is so bad. And we shafted ourselves by voting out PR in a moronic childish spite-vote not long ago.

    Don't get me wrong - PR has problems too. Deals done to form coalitions can give undue weight to the policies of small minorities.
    No, we voted against AV, which is not PR. We weren't asked about PR. Perhaps unfortunately.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    Because if you remove yourself from the system you can never improve it?
    But, if you don't feel you can support any of the candidates, you don't have a positive, constructive option.

    And, if you vote for someone on a least-worst basis, they will take your vote as a positive endorsement if them and their policies.

    Take the last election. I sure as hell wasn't voting for Brown, and I don't agree with the LibDems on too many things, including several important issues. So what were my choices? Don't vote, vote for one of several no-hopers .... or vote Conservative. Not exactly an appealing set of choices.

    Even spoiling your ballit doesn't make much sense, because there could be any number of reasons for having done it, from 'protest', to too thick to get it right.

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    Re: Vote....or else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Galant View Post
    Would compulsory voting bring about electoral reform? While people don't have to vote they can ignore the problem. If everyone had to would they not be motivated to refine/reform the process?
    I doubt it. And what happens if the usual millions just defy the compulsion?

    If you want to get people to vote, you need (IMHO) to convince them their vote makes a difference. And for a very large number of peopke, under the current system, it's absolutely pointless. Only if you live in a marginal is there anything more than an absolutely minimal chance if your vote mattering a damn. And even if you do vote, all you're electing is a proxy to make decisions for you, and not necessarily as you would.

    All told, given our politicians, I'm surprised as many people vote as do.

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