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Thread: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

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    British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24562930

    Yet another year that the energy companies are going to try and sponge as much out of us as possible

    I'm going to wait for the other companies to announce their rises (as like sheep they all follow each other!) and have a serious look around for the cheapest deals - well actually will be starting now to see what fixed deals they have going.

    Anyone found a good deal they want to share?

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    My favourite bit:
    The company said it "understands the frustration" of prices rising faster than incomes.
    Oh good, that's ok then - please continue to fleece us. Knowing that that you understand the hardship really does make all the difference.

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    I did an online energy comparison, ended up on a fixed tariff with Flow energy, although there was very little in it, probably only saving £60 a year over nPower.

    I read today that for every £1 billed, only 5p of that is actual profit for British Gas. Don't want to defend them too much as it's still in the mega-millions, but you have got to appreciate the cost of producing that energy and delivering it to your house on demand.

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by virtuo View Post
    I did an online energy comparison, ended up on a fixed tariff with Flow energy, although there was very little in it, probably only saving £60 a year over nPower.

    I read today that for every £1 billed, only 5p of that is actual profit for British Gas. Don't want to defend them too much as it's still in the mega-millions, but you have got to appreciate the cost of producing that energy and delivering it to your house on demand.
    It's more complicated than that, for example the average profit margin for generation in 2011 was 24.4%. http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2013...xcess-profits/

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    There is also the "green tax"

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436...st-300-by-2020

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...rgy-chief.html

    But don't worry, in a couple of years the reserve electricity generation capacity will have shrunk to around 4% because of the EU's green policies imposed upon us, so when power cuts happen, you will be saving money.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19842401
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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    My favourite bit:

    Oh good, that's ok then - please continue to fleece us. Knowing that that you understand the hardship really does make all the difference.
    But is it fleecing, though?

    First, all those "free insulation" deals .... did you get one? If so, who did you think was actually paying for it? If not, then you'll be delighted to know that you (and I) are paying to insulate the homes of those that did get it. And who's fault is that? Energy companies .... or the governments that forced them to do it.

    It's basically a sort-of tax, with energy companies getting the blame for something they were made to do by government.

    Then there's all those lovely environmental projects, like on-shore, off-shore and solar generators. Well, you can expect significant future price increases due to those, because we have decades of guaranteed above-wholesale prices, basically meaning we are paying a subsidy now, and for years, to induce businesses to "invest" in the infrastructure.

    So the argument there is whether we want green power or not? If we do, someone is going to end up paying for it, and that will be us. Again, energy companies aren't given any choice but to collect the green levies OR, as it increasingly comes online, to pay wholesale prices that are double, or triple, the wholesale rate. So, as the mix gradually feeds in more and more green power, the cost of the power WILL go up, as a direct result of government policy that decided to induce investment by building in the subsidies, which we now get to pay.

    If rumoured details are correct, the forthcoming nuclear deal will ve similar, with a profit margin guaranteed by a "triple wholesale" unit price of power generated .... or, in all likelihood, nuclear wouldn't get built.

    Then, there's the variation in wholesale market prices, and the costs of renewing network infrastructure, etc.

    So, is it a rip-off?

    The fact, and I uxe that word most carefully, is that we simply do not know, because we do not have access to detailed accounts that would tell us precisely where these price rices are coming from.

    And, again given that governments (including BOTH the current coalition and previous Labour ones) have been determined to keep the UK at the forefront of meeting carbon targets, the option to keep older gas, and even worse, coal-powered stations running, is not available.

    So, with those stations going offline, we either have to replace them with something else, ve it wind, solar, or new nuclear, or the lights are going to go out.

    Do we want regular power cuts? I remember that in the 70s, and would rather give it a miss this time round. So no, we don't.

    Or, do we blame the people making these decisions (governments) when the bills come home to roist, or do we blame those collecting the taxes (power companies)? When VAT goes up, do we blame Tesco or John Lewis for our TVs and computers costing more, or do we blame the government/Chancellor that raised the rate?

    What we know, and I mean know for a dead cert, is that PART of recent rises have been as a direct result of government policy. After all, all those homes didn't insulate themselves. We can argue it was right or wrong to do it, but either way, it had to be paid for.

    We can also argue about whether green power is justified or not, but either way, it's VERY expensive, and not the fault of power companies.

    I have seen claims by BG that post-tax profits are about 5%. If so, it's hardly fleecing us, and is about the same as Tesco. I wonder how that compares to pre-crash bank profits, and who has really been doing the fleecing?

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Are you saying the ~30% increase in the cost of household fuel over the last three years alone is mainly down to green levies and increased taxation?

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    Are you saying the ~30% increase in the cost of household fuel over the last three years alone is mainly down to green levies and increased taxation?
    No. I'm saying there's a number of factors, including those, and rises in market prices due to increased demand in, say, China, and to infrastructure investment, which also has to be paid for.

    What I'm saying is we don't know how much of these price rises is due to these factors, and how much, if any, is due to fleecing.

    The figures needed to do that analysis simply are not public.

    But I'm not saying they aren't fleecing us, or that they are. I'm saying we don't know. But you did say they are fleecing us. Prove it. What proportion of these rises are wholesale price rises, what green taxes, what infrastructure investment, and what part, exactly, is fleecing?

    Nobody likes price rises. But to categorise it as fleecing, with knowing how much, if any, is profiteering, and how much is passing on external price rises, is unfair.

    So, I'm not the one claiming it is or isn't fleecing, you are. So, based on what evidence? Or is it just anger at price rises?

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    Are you saying the ~30% increase in the cost of household fuel over the last three years alone is mainly down to green levies and increased taxation?
    That and an increase in wholesale prices, however the wholesale price of gas is about 45% of the price charged to the consumer.

    The rates of climate change levy are here

    http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...E_PROD1_031183

    (Bit like petrol - the actual cost of a litre of fuel is about 90p - the rest is fuel duty and VAT at 20%. Vat on gas and electricity is 5%, although the EU would like it to be higher)


    You might find this interesting too - VAT proposals on energy efficiency products.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19545185

    http://www.uk-vat-advice.co.uk/126-g...llenged-by-eu/
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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I'm not the one claiming it is or isn't fleecing, you are. So, based on what evidence? Or is it just anger at price rises?
    Of course I'm angry at the prices rises, but considering when the wholesale price goes up they are quick to announce price increases yet respond with glacial speed when the wholesale price drops, it's fair to say there is an element of fleecing in there too; don't you think?

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash477 View Post
    Anyone found a good deal they want to share?
    EDF is cheapest by miles for me, but I'm electricity only and they're cheap for electricity. They also do a no gas main discount which helps.

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    No one is cheap.
    I am with npower for Electricity and Flow Energy for Gas.

    I looked at my bills over the last 5 years and prices have trebled!

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    I think it's time for me to start shopping around!

    Butuz

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    Of course I'm angry at the prices rises, but considering when the wholesale price goes up they are quick to announce price increases yet respond with glacial speed when the wholesale price drops, it's fair to say there is an element of fleecing in there too; don't you think?
    I think it's an assumption, and because we don't know what the various other elements are, it may or may not be the case.
    Also, given that gas prices tend to be bought on fairly long forward contracts, there is no easy way to calculate a direct link between price of raw materials, and retail price of energy. If you are buying 6 months in advance, the cost of gas today will be impacting on retail prices in 6 months. But, when you are determining a price rise, you'll be factoring in wholesale price changes over a long period, so in the meantime, prices may have risen, fallen and risen again, none of which will necessarily affect your input costs because you have a long-term contract. Unless you know the dates of, duration of and terms of those contracts, you can't tell whether margins are being artifically exploited, or not.

    Bear in mind that politicians, especially opposition ones, need demons to fight. It was getting a bit boresome constantly bashing bankers, so for the sake of cheap populism, energy companies are getting a walloping. I don't know about you, but I've caught politicians (of all parties) very selectively choosing statistics to misrepresent actual fact, because it suits their argument, so many times that I tend tocassume they're bending the truth. But nor do I trust energy companies to be whiter thsn white.

    So no, I don't think it's fair to say there "is" an element of fleecing in there. I think that's just reflecting a populist blame-game bashing exercise poluticians play.

    What I do think is fair is that there might be fleecing going on, but we don't have enough information to know. Just don't take inflammatory rhetoric by politicians of profiteering at face value. Remember, lies, damned lies, and statistics. Disraeli, IIRC.

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    Re: British Gas raise electric by 10.4% and gas by 8.4%

    has anyone else selected BG clear and simple tariff? I spent my life in building specialisng in energy and I cant undertstand the billing so many figures and none make sense

    there are 7 pages to a bill and I am £300 in credit if I put the useage figures in a switch engine I bill of between £6500 and £450 a year with resultant saving of £2000 or zero with a new supplier I have a A+ EPC rated home with RDSAP 120 so use little power(£40 PM gas & electric for a 144m2 detatched 4 bed) The tariff SEEMS to be fixed but really its not ! designed for pensioners It is opaque in the extreme Help

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