What ring?

[Barakka]

I also can't tell her as that would defeat the surprise. and I know it's not the money that counts. She would be very happy regardless of the ring I gave her but I want to get her a nice one that looks great.

I bought a bag of childrens plastic toy rings from a supermarket for £1 and used one of those to propose so she could choose the ring she wanted.

In the end we had rings made, her engagement ring is a diamond solitaire, her wedding ring is encrusted with black diamonds and the two interlock to make a single larger ring. My wedding ring was made too, simple band but with a subtle nod to the shape of the mobius strip. Worked out around 10% more expensive than buying the equivalent size/gems/weight in a high street jewellers, but they are unique.

[OilSheikh]

As promised :

[kalniel]

PS

10% off my previously mentioned shop using the code DECEMBER13

[finlay666]

As promised :

That is a very fuzzy ring

[kalniel]

That is a very fuzzy ring

It's a retro gaming ring I think. Very neat.

[OilSheikh]

I didn't take a pic of the ring beforehand. This is just a blown up section from one of the wedding photos

[Galant]

Congrats indeed!

You haven't mentioned how quickly you need the ring. If you have some time to play with then you might have a few more options available to you.

With me, as I looked into rings and stones, I soon discovered what others have said, you get a lot less diamond for your money than other precious stones. A lot of people still only want diamond engagement rings but for me and my wife it was more important to me to get something more individual. In the end I went with a sapphire ring and had it custom made. If your lady likes the idea of tradition in rings or significance in stones, take a look at engagement ring history. Almost any stone was used up until Debeers marketed their rear-ends off and convinced the world that it had to be diamonds. Nothing prior to that at all. Sapphires though, have often been the choice of royalty. That wasn't a deal-breaker for me, I just wanted a ring that looked nice and was unique in some way.

Now, a custom design might sound extremely expensive but I kept it in budget. I found a ring I didn't like with a sapphire I did like and bought that intending to remove and re-set the stone. I managed to get a little trade-in value for the gold of the initial ring and two tiny diamonds that were with it. I then found a good small jeweler with an in-house craftsman and worked with him on designs for the new ring/setting. My first design was quite heavy on the gold and put me well over my limit. We worked at it and looked at different options and in the end came up with engagement/wedding band matching set, engraved, which I was really happy with. Ignoring the initial purchase of the stone, the whole cost of producing the final product was £690 before taking money off for the trade-in gold.

Off the top of my head I can't remember what I paid for the first ring with the sapphire. Admittedly, I found it cheaper than usual at a trade gem-show. If nothing like that exists (or visits) near you, you could just consider the idea of buying the stone separately if that options exists within travelling distance, or you could do it online in communication with a reputable dealer. If you can find a dealer in whom you have confidence, then just make sure you have a point of reference to know, in real terms, what quality/type of stone you're talking about. Read a few articles, and if you find a local craftsman who can do the work for you, he should hopefully be able to help you with selecting a stone.

Anyway, I'm rambling on. Point is, if you have some time to work with, take a look at what options you have around you and consider that you might well be able to afford something truly unique, maximising the stone and most women greatly appreciate it any time extra heart and love is poured into something.

[DanceswithUnix]

Remember that the ring is a symbol of love.

I thought it was traditionally a symbol to the girl's family that you are not a waste of space and will be able to look after her financially, and the value is a penalty if you don't go through with it

I remember getting stressed by the whole selection process, but in the end just chose one that I thought looked tasteful and was within budget. The jeweller was very helpful though, and said that if she said yes come back to get the ring properly sized to fit her finger, if no they would give a full refund, and if she didn't like the ring (thankfully she did) then they would swap if for another. Guess they deal with this situation all the time and have it well rehearsed That was a good local jeweller, now bought out by the Goldsmiths chain, but I'm sure as long as you avoid the Argos end of the market it will all be fine.

Hope it all goes well for you!

[santa claus]

That is a very fuzzy ring

Aww, you say that to all of the boys/girls

[shirleygb77]

First thing is congrats mate!

When i brought my wife's engagement ring I used my house deposit for it and went the whole route of clarity, color and carat etc. and it was only .77 ct. She liked it but i think she liked it more because i was proposing and she would have liked anything I offered.

Buy the brightest, the most sparkling diamond you can get for your money, don't buy the biggest.

Save any extra money for house, wedding etc you'll need every bit of cash you can get.

Being a woman, I agree with you. Although diamonds are woman's best friend. But still you need to take care of your other expenses too. You can get a diamond engagement ring that is worth enough for a wedding. My hubby got me my engagement ring which wasn't that costly but still it was elegant and beautiful.

Thanks for the advice guys. Currently living in Stirling Scotland. I can't travel too far due to work atm.

I also can't tell her as that would defeat the surprise. and I know it's not the money that counts. She would be very happy regardless of the ring I gave her but I want to get her a nice one that looks great.

You've got a point. You can't travel to each & every place. I would suggest you to shop online as it is time convenient and it would be brought at your door. Moreover, you would be able to choose out of no. of options available. My hubby chose the ring for me via online and it was inexpensive and elegant.

I thought it was traditionally a symbol to the girl's family that you are not a waste of space and will be able to look after her financially, and the value is a penalty if you don't go through with it

I remember getting stressed by the whole selection process, but in the end just chose one that I thought looked tasteful and was within budget. The jeweller was very helpful though, and said that if she said yes come back to get the ring properly sized to fit her finger, if no they would give a full refund, and if she didn't like the ring (thankfully she did) then they would swap if for another. Guess they deal with this situation all the time and have it well rehearsed That was a good local jeweller, now bought out by the Goldsmiths chain, but I'm sure as long as you avoid the Argos end of the market it will all be fine.

This policy has been now an important factor which people look forward to buy rings, refund policy, return policy plays an important role in making decision to buy rings. There are various online stores where one could get these assets.

[Saracen]

Well, my wife got to pick her ring, and she "picked" a £6k ring from a local goldsmith. When I recovered from the shock, stood back up, my blood pressure stabilised and my vision cleared, she told me not to such a <rude word> idiot, and that she didn't give a <very rude word> what ring it was, a Coke ring-pull would do. So we ended up with a £50 Argos special, and put the balance of my ring budget into the house. Here we are, 25 years later, still happily together, and she is still happy with her Argos special.

As others have pointed out, it's the symbolism that matters. It's probably the one piece of jewelry where appearance probably isn't an issue.

On the other hand, my wife isn't your fiancee (I sure hope), Neon, so I've no idea what floats her boat, ring-wise.

Hope that helps.

[ik9000]

have pm'd you some info

[ik9000]

Also: for all and future folk who may want it... the ik9000 learnings when he bought an engagement ring:

1) do not stress about sizes, and costs, and expectations of how much salary-wise a man should spend on said ring. It's is literally marketing BS invented by de Beers (diamond company) to boost sales in the 1920s/1930s. Set yourself a budget and do NOT shift from it.

2) size is not everything QUALITY is what counts. A large poor quality diamond is far worse, and far uglier, than a small good quality sparkler. (see below)

3) don't forget to consider other stones, friends have had sapphires, emeralds, etc as the primary set, and used very small diamonds around it to get a cracker of a ring at less than a single big diamond would have cost.

4) basically diamonds cost exponentially more with size - it is way easier to get no defects in smaller diamonds, because they can be cut-up to avoid the natural blemishes nature brings

5) look out for treated diamonds - some folk try to pressure impregnate fissures. This is not great, and always check it hasn't been done if you really care about the stone you're getting.

6) ok, so starting with diamond quality.... people talk about "the 4Cs"
they mean
i)carat weight (size or more specifically weight of the stone)
ii)colour (how clear is the diamond)
iii)clarity (how many natural flaws/defects does the diamond have)
iv)cut (how regular/irregularly shaped is the diamond)

These are not the b'all and end-all - to really get a stellar diamond you need to go a little deeper, but let us start with these (briefly - there are websites a plenty to go to muchos detail, this is intended as a summary only)

i) carat . Don't get hung up on this. Go for what you can afford, but try to drop just below a key boundary. You'll get better quality diamonds and also avoid the size premium. E.g. a .46 Carat diamond is virtually indistinguishable for a 0.5 carat diamond in terms of size. However, 0.5 carat carries a huge premium as it is one of the "target" sizes. 0.75, 1.0 carat similarly etc etc.

To get the monikar 0.5 carat, people are willing to cut the diamond at worse geometry (see below) giving duller sparkle etc, just to get a 0.5 carat diamond they can sell.

The result is a wide availability of 0.5 carat diamonds, most of which are, if you really want a firey sparkler of a diamond, not going to give it.

So by looking under the boundary, there are fewer stones, and most will be cut to a better geometry to start with.

ii) colour - how clear/"white" the diamond is. Natural impurities can produce a variety of coluors. Bright colours fetch a premium eg pink, yellow, blue etc Brown diamonds are cheaper, white diamonds more expensive. Most studies indicate people like diamonds at colour I or above. D being white, I slightly brown. anything less than I, avoid.

Now when we went to look at diamonds, anything D-F is fine. G and below against white flourescent paper slightly brown, below I we're talking gradual progression to coca-cola spill territory.

Stick a D next to an F on a white background, you can tell the difference, but when are you ever going to do that with rings on hands? You're not.

So sweet spot depending on your budget may be to start by going for an F colour.

FYI tiffanys use colour I upwards in their jewellery for exactly these reasons.


iii) clarity. Defects exist in a variety of forms. Mainly inclusions either on the surface or internally, but also banding, feathering, tears and pin-prick spatters of bubbles etc.

Scale is Perfect (P) aka Flawless (F) - internally flawed (IF) - Very very slightly included (VVS1), very very slightly included surface (VVS2), very slightly included (VS1), very slightly included surface (VS2), then slightly included SI1, SI2, then included I1, I2,I3 etc.

Do not even consider anything less than SI2. Jewellers I spoke to said SI1/2 can be ok, but it needs a careful choice, and sometimes careful mounting to conceal the bigger defects

VS2 and above needs a microscope to see the defect. I.e. JUST FINE. The bigger diamonds are less forgiving so need step up in quality.

VS-2 or better will be ok for less than 0.5 carat, VS1 or better for more than 0.5 carat, and really think about going VVS2 or higher for above 1 carat. If you're a millionaire and going 1.5 carat or higher you're on your own, but I imagine you wouldn't want to go less than VVS1, possibly IF...

NB clarity is talking about microscopic inclusions. For a given grade this could mean it has one big inclusion, or several little ones in a cluster. If on the wrong point of the diamond, eg a ridge, they can be noticable. This is why going VS2 is a better bet than SI1. Or VS1 better than VS2 etc. Each band places more restriction on location of defect, as well as total volume of said defects.

iv)cut - basically, how to standard is the cut. Many different shapes of diamond exist. Each shape has been studied and people have worked out via theory and consumer testing which geometries give the preferred sparkle, shimmer, coloration of refraction etc etc. edit:It also considers symmetry, and the pattern internally and externally of the diamond when viewed from certain angles. The GIA pdf wall chart link I give below explains this in pictures far better than I can do in words...

The best are rated excellent, then very good, good, average, and poor. IMO do not go less than very good. I'd rather have an excellent 0.43 carat than a good 0.5 carat diamond.

If you're going for some of the shapes with long edges and distinct symmetry eg pear shaped/tear drop, or oval then keeping above VERY GOOD is a necessity. I've seen stones at GOOD rating which are visibly asymmetric, used in a necklace and it ruins the jewelry.

[ik9000]

Even once you've figured out your target 4Cs, there is still some subtlety to consider.

Most importantly, the things which determine the real value of a diamond, both to you, and to sellers.

To most people these are best described as

Fire
Sparkle/Scintillation
brightness/light return
culet
girdle
fluorescence
certification
Polish

People who like to look at them under a microscope may care about patterns in the diamond. I bet you and I would never give a hoot if it produced hearts and stars or not (though this is encaptured under the CUT rating described above, so you cover this inadvertently anyway)

Fire - how much colour band you get from refraction of light when it bounces around the diamond and reflects back at you. Poor geometries only give blue light back. Or worse NO light back, just a dull black. Or even fish-eyeing where you see not bounced-back light, but the mount itself!!!


Sparkle, think of it as many facets = many mirrors = a lot of flashing/sparkle. You want bling bling? You want scintillation

light return, meh, whatever. So long as it sparkles, and hits red refraction (so you get all the colours of the rainbow flying around) I don't care what % of light going in comes back out. A good brightness is ok IMO.

culet - the point of the diamond. A blunt culet = a dead spot in the stone, and can affect the above, bad culets = black spot when viewed from certain angles

girdle (how thick the band around the edge of the diamond is - not too bad, but a chunky girdle can be ugly and with the wrong geometry introduce dead points in the internal refraction paths)

fluorescence. Natural diamonds can be fluorescent if the right impurity is present when they're formed. It is one way to test a diamond vs a cubic zirconia. the latter never fluoresces. Non-fluorescing diamonds are rarer so fetch a premium. Whether you want your diamond to fluoresce is up to you. Really don't get hung up on this, all other things being equal I'd go for non-fluorescing, but it wouldn't be deal-breaker for me.

certification, many places test and certify diamonds, but not all are equal in their rigorousness or standards. Think Uni degree vs HND vs swimming certificate etc etc. The industry standard of excellence is a GIA certified diamond - they are most controlled, and most in-depth. An excellent non-GIA certified diamond might only by a good GIA diamond, as they look at the microscopic stuff and patternation in far greater detail than some competitors do.

polish - does what is says on the tin. For jewellery you want a very good or excellent polish/surface finish for obvious reasons

Now, I shan't go into anymore depth on these, a really good place to learn on them is http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds
and also the GIA diamond website: http://gia4cs.gia.edu/en-us/index.htm

[ik9000]

And lastly, the thing jewellers hate you to know about... The HCA cut advisor. Only available free for round (brilliant) cut diamonds (also available for other cuts if you pay for the software) but you can use it to assess the fire and scintillation of the diamond.

Find out the GIA number of the diamond you are looking at. Download the pdf test certificate from either the jeweller if they will give it, or the GIA database.

plug in the geometry into the HCA calculator found here: http://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
you get an entry panel like this:


and hit "go" to get an output like this:


This is for the default values. Now actually, I prefer a lesser spread, it gives slightly redder fire to my eye, so if you compromise, accept very good light return and good/very good spread, if the fire and scintillation remain excellent, and nicely in the red part of the plot.

The cut advisor tests for "fish-eye" - a really horrible defect that can arise if the geometry is wrong - and warn you about it. Trust me, better to have a 0.3 carat diamond that is excellent across the board, than a 0.7 carat diamond that has fish-eye.

This is a really useful tool. Especially if your jeweller calls you after you have ordered your hand-picked diamond to propose switching the stone. Just use that GIA number to get the info to test whether the switch is to a turkey or not! It has helped a few people I know to avoid getting a dull stone.

NB when you're looking at the diamond test report certification, check WHAT inclusions it has. Few or several, size, nature. These may be the reason two similar sounding stones have vastly different prices. Surface flaws are considered usually less desirable than fully internaly. Surface weaknesses may increase the risk of chipping etc, as well as affecting light behaviour in different ways

A good reference on clarity and type of inclusion is here: http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/diamon...iamond-clarity

Notes from the creator of HCA advisor here on its use, and a reminder not to solely rely upon it, but also to get a diamond appraised. http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamo...ay-cut-advisor

[ik9000]

And lastly, what to do with all the above. Well you can either source a bare stone on the open market. Eg BlueNile, 77diamonds and similar websites. You can then take this to a jeweller of your choice for them to mount.

Or you can use it to assess the stone in a pre-made ring.

Or some sites, again 77diamonds, blue nile, etc let you choose your stone in a range of fittings, so you can choose both your ring style, and the very stone that goes into it! They usually offer to price match on the diamond too, so if you find the same GIA diamond out there for a different price they match it.

Lastly, people talk about the "ideal cut" this is just a theoretical geometry some guy came up with in the 19th century. It does have some validity, most folk do like it, but there is a good spread of opinion either side of the "ideal" which people say they prefer. The "excellent" GIA range allows for this spread, rather than restricting it to only the "ideal" geometry target.


Here endeth IK9000's intro to diamonds.

A few useful references not given above:
http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/WN11A3.pdf
http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/cu...sment_0106.pdf
http://gia4cs.gia.edu/en-us/gr-diamond-report.htm

tables you can print to take out while shopping - to tell you whether the diamond really is excellent as he claims: http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdfs/b...es_highres.pdf

Handy wall chart overviews to all the above:
http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdfs/e...rade-hires.pdf
http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdfs/p...le_highres.pdf