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Thread: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

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    Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    part 1 - the Scottish navy:

    http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.c...-scottish.html

    and part 2 - the Scottish airforce:

    http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.c...ottish_30.html

    shockingly good read about how badly wrong Alex Salmond has planned for anything defence related - huge levels of assumptions and a reliance of `currency union` which the BoE has already said they really arnt interested in at this time...

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    Treasure Hunter extraordinaire herulach's Avatar
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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    the whole thing is an exercise in properly soviet era ostrichism. The other day they had the deputy comrade in chief on the today program and asked her why, when the EU commision & most of the other heads of state had said scotland would have to queue behind eastern europe did they think otherwise, and the answer was basically 'because we say thats the case FREEEEDDOOOOOOMMM!!' As for all this keeping sterling bollocks, fine, keep sterling, but its unreasonable to suggest (as they have repeatedly) that the bank of england bear any thought for the scottish economy when setting policy.

    The whole argument appears to be, well, if the scottish people vote FREEDOM then the oppressors in london can continue to provide all the services we don't want to pay for, and we'll gobuy a load of shiny new stuff and hope noone notices we're a shower of ****e. also, FREEEDOM!!

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Quote Originally Posted by herulach View Post
    because we say thats the case FREEEEDDOOOOOOMMM!!
    This sums up perfectly what's happening with several of my Scottish friends.

    None of them can explain how it will benefit them. None of them can explain policy change. None of them understand what the BoE is and how a split will affect them. None of them seem to accept that they will have to negotiate with the EU in regards to their current status.

    But **** the English!

    I really don't care what they do to be honest. If they want to break off, let them do so....but I'm just struggling to find actual Scots who can answer basic questions about it.

    Kinda like The Sun readers and leaving the EU I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Dude, I can't explain it, and that's why I will be voting No.

    Here is some of my thinking.

    1) Westminster doesn't seem to be making much fuss of it, which says to me that they won't loose much if we go our own way. Ergo, we wouldn't be better off.

    2) I'm not an ass hole. There is only £X billion in the economy. If we take £Y billion and do our own thing that leaves £X-Y for the rest of the country. We can't suddenly be better off and not impact England, Ireland and Wales in a negative way. I'm sorry, but I don't want to screw over 60million people of this country. (this assuming the SNP rhetoric is worth believing).

    3. If Alex Salmond is in favour of it, then that's reason enough to be against it. He's a sleezy slim ball. And he was fast moving to getting punched in the face on stage at the Scottish Traditional Boat Festival (look it up, it's a big deal up here) last year when speaking to my wife.

    I really do worry about that will happen next year :/

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    And he was fast moving to getting punched in the face on stage at the Scottish Traditional Boat Festival (look it up, it's a big deal up here) last year when speaking to my wife.
    Oh!! Tell us more!!

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Oh!! Tell us more!!


    Well, just him coming across as being sleezy and speaking to my wife. Didn't seem to get the whole "personal space" thing really. Afterwards she confirmed that he made her feel uncomfortable and actually he came across as a bit of an idiot to her.

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    Treasure Hunter extraordinaire herulach's Avatar
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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post


    Well, just him coming across as being sleezy and speaking to my wife. Didn't seem to get the whole "personal space" thing really. Afterwards she confirmed that he made her feel uncomfortable and actually he came across as a bit of an idiot to her.
    Not that he doesn't to everyone else of course. When they inevitably get panned, it will be interesting to see what happens to the party.

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    When I hear Salmond speak, my first reaction to Scotland is to want to cut it adrift - but I realise that many (most?) Scots are rational and intelligent people who realise that 'United we Stand, Divided we Fall' and this is being fanned by Salmond for the benefit of his own ego.
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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Me personally, I have never voted in my life. And I certainly WILL be voting NO! I can't see how Scotland will benefit from being Independent.

    Maybe I just need to look harder...

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    I'd like to see Salmond honestly talk about the huge drop in living standards Scots would see post-devolution. Scotland currently does very well under the Barnett formula.

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    currently there isn't a very good argument on either side for pro or con - other than FREEDOM!

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Got family and friends up there. Anyone with a brain is voting no. Those voting yes seem to be on the basis of racialism against the English. So yes, though they might not say it that way, it does seem to come down to "FREEDOOOMMMMMM".

    People I know know Salmond. Apparently he used to buy my wife sweets when she was little. Setting aside the disturbing feeling that gives me, and ignoring the comments that will probably come, I do not rate the chap, generous sweet distribution or not. The older rellies will tell of him being nice, and a good politician etc, but even they are voting no. Some of them would love independence, but given the information available they can't see how it would actually work in practice. Nor can I for that matter, but I'm English and I don't get to vote.

    Does anyone else find it ironic that as someone else pointed out, them leaving would affect us too, but we can't vote on it. Nor do we get offered a vote about blocking Scottish MPs voting on English matters? It takes the mick a bit no?

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    How about this for an English countervote....

    Once Scotland have had their vote, if they vote yes, Cameron should issue a public vote to England and Wales:

    Following Scotland's vote to leave the UK, should the UK deny Scotland any beneficial rights in England/Wales other than that which other nations would expect?

    This could include, (and some of this is a bit tongue in cheek, not saying we should go so far, but think about it as a theoretical exercise):

    No access to the pound,
    Reinstate border controls, possibly rebuild Hadrian's Wall if the need arises
    Impose import and export duties against Scotland, including all Scotch beef and whisky entering and leaving the (remaining) UK.
    Tax scottish visitors for use of the NHS,
    impose foreign national tuition fees on all Scottish students in UK universities,
    deny access to all MOD training facilities
    Restricted access to English/Welsh waters/airspace without paying duty
    Deny Scottish residents in the UK indefinite right to remain, vote and buy property in the UK.
    impose strict visa control on all Scots
    limit the number of Scots who can reside in the UK at any one time
    Deny access to Scottish firms to the UK market without approval and a licence
    Sever Scotland from the national grid (and the new Nuclear power stations we're building - after all Salmond wants a nuclear free Scotland)
    Ban exports of midge repellant and midge control devices to Scotland
    etc etc

    The point I'm trying to raise is that there are a lot of things a new independent Scotland should not be automatically entitled to. Just as we should not expect to be entitled to go up there as easily as we can now. An independent Scotland would NOT be part of the EU. And they (the EU) would not automatically fast-track it. They would not be entitled to retain the EU-UK passports they currently have. They would not be covered by the laws of freedom of movement etc. They can line up with every other nation outside the EU. Scotland will need to get its own passport set up pretty darn quickly. And negotiate visa (or lack of) terms with literally every nation on the planet.

    Tangent, and serious question, wtf does happen to Scottish people currently living in England? 1) they don't get to vote in the Scottish independence referendum (unfair!) 2) will they have to get a new passport and visa to live in the UK? Could they get to choose to stay put (essentially choose to self-define as English(!) and retain a UK passport? Would they get automatic dual nationality from both governments? Given that it would serious impacts on them individually they ought to be able to vote too.

    Think about it, "Scotland has voted to leave the UK. Are you Scottish? Yes or No?" ie self-define as English and stay (unreasonable expectation - you can't expect someone to ditch their heritage like that) or Scottish and (unless we're generous) surrender your right to expect to be able to live in England/Wales as easily as you do now. Presumably the most realistic outcome would be if they want to be Scottish but remain an English/Welsh permanent resident they'd presumably end up becoming one of those folk on a UK resident passport as opposed to a full UK citizen - which has visa implications on trips abroad, and other legal ramifications IIRC. I think this is what gets granted to immigrants when they've been here for a while. Frankly though, the government could throw the rattle out and insist they choose one way or the other, no middle ground. Given we're an Anglo-Scot couple that could cause some serious problems in our house!

    This whole thing is a load of twaddle IMO. Given the state of finances, and the pressures facing the world over food and energy supply, global warming and the looming threat of giant mooses dropping from the sky at any moment, we need to pull together and concentrate on the real issues, not some ego-driven racialistic BS spouted by someone who, if he's as smart as people say he is, really ought to know better. And I don't care if he did buy my wife a 10p mix when see was wee. Scots pride themselves on calling a spade a spade. This independence vote is a political ploy and a farce.
    Last edited by ik9000; 03-12-2013 at 08:38 PM.

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    Treasure Hunter extraordinaire herulach's Avatar
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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    The only thing with import bans is, you'd get export bans too. and I need my irnbru.

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    From afar it just seems like Alex will ride the publicity and make it look more popular than it is in order to negotiate better terms for Scotland. The Tories will sign it in panic.

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    Re: Why Alex Salmond is scarily wrong about the SDF

    Quote Originally Posted by pp05 View Post
    The Tories will sign it in panic.
    No. I think they'll call his bluff, and when Scotland votes no, he will actually have LESS of a voice. He's in a good position and he's putting it all on red (or perhaps blue) to try and get more without looking at the pitfalls. Outcome = More popularity among racialist Scots? Yes. More clout with UK government? No. So he gets to keep the SNP in power, but without the independence vote to dangle, why should they keep voting for him, and what will his key policy then become? Trams for all Scotland?

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