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Thread: Speeding doesn't pay !!

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    Speeding doesn't pay !!

    I was allegedly caught doing 33 in a 30mph zone recently, and even though they have shown me no evidence to support the claim I have been offered a place on a Speed Awareness Course.

    Do I accept, pay £85, and move on (slowly) or argue the toss and wait for proof and claim that their speed gun was faulty etc etc?

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    They can't do you for 33, I understood they had to give you 10% to allow for your speedo not being a calibrated speedo like the police have.

    I actually always understood it was 10% +3mph before they could ticket you, could be wrong.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    I don't think that is a official rule, more of a 'they will mostly let you off 10%' but may be wrong. Need to have a bit of googling.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Ask for the evidence first, unless you were stopped at the time and advised that you would be reported for prosecution. If it was a camera, you should be shown the photographic evidence.

    33 in a 30 is probably unlucky - the guidelines used to be 10% +2, but that was discretionary, but did reflect that speedometer calibration is only to 10% at 30MPH. But exceeding the speed limit is an absolute offence - either you were, or you weren't.

    Arguing the toss in court is risky, and if you lose, you will end up with the fine, the 'victim support supplement', possibly costs, and points on your licence. The question is "Do you feel lucky? Well, do you?"

    You might want to read this:

    http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/...eding-tickets/
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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    I assumed it was 10% for speedo etc, but apparently not in my case.

    £60 fine & 3 points (which you have to declare for 5 years) are the alternative.

    In the long run stumping up £85 for the course will probably be the wise choice, as the car insurance will no doubt rocket once you start racking up the points.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    It must have been a mobile unit as there is no fixed camera on the road in question.

    I assumed that once I sent back the initial "tell us who was driving" letter that photographic evidence would be given, but all I got was the letter offering the course. Would of been nice to see the proof just for peace of mind.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Quote Originally Posted by PasPer2 View Post
    I assumed that once I sent back the initial "tell us who was driving" letter that photographic evidence would be given, but all I got was the letter offering the course. Would of been nice to see the proof just for peace of mind.
    Template letter for "How to request copies of speed camera photographs" on the link from peterb, should get you what you need.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Are you certain you were not in one of the new 20mph areas.

    It should still be speed limit + 10% + 2mph.

    http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_...ge/The_Law.htm

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    even with the proposed new limit of 5MPH you would still be OK.

    Low - zero tolerance. The government here in the UK introduced draconian measures to try to curb speeding. It's still possible that the ACPO guidelines will be scrapped completely and be replaced by a flat 5mph limit above posted speed limits. So whether you get caught doing 36 in a 30 zone or 76 on a motorway, you're nicked (as Richard's evidence above now shows.) The police have reeled somewhat at this announcement because, by their own admission, they simply don't have enough time or resources to process all the speeders at the moment. Should the limit be dropped, they'd be inundated. we'll keep you posted

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    10% + 2mph is an old police guideline and not law.
    Speedometers are allowed to overread up to 10%+6 1/4 mph They aren't allowed to underread at all. from the relevant regs (schedule 3, point 19) (my emph):
    1. The vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer capable of indicating speed in mph at uniform intervals not exceeding 20 mph at all speeds up to the maximum speed of the vehicle and capable of being read by the driver at all times of the day or night.
    2. For all true speeds up to the design speed of the vehicle, the true speed shall not exceed the indicated speed.
    3. For all true speeds of between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the maximum speed if lower), the difference between the indicated speed and the true speed shall not exceed— V/10+6.25 mph where V = the true speed of the vehicle in mph.
    So at an indicated speed of 70 your roadspeed is allowed to be anywhere between 70mph and 57.95mph. If its 71mph then your vehicle is in breach of C&U regs. at 30 it would be 30 down to 21.6. Whether this is actually checked is a completely different matter.

    Kind of explains why you see such a disparity of speeds on the motorway, even though most people will stick to a broadly indicated 70. In my personal experience Volvo speedos (at least the C30/C70/S40 range) are more or less bob on, ford overread by about 8 mph and my present seat by about 3.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Quote Originally Posted by herulach View Post
    Whether this is actually checked is a completely different matter.
    I believe it is tested at type approval, so unless you are driving something like a kit car which has been through individual vehicle approval then it probably hasn't ever been tested.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I believe it is tested at type approval, so unless you are driving something like a kit car which has been through individual vehicle approval then it probably hasn't ever been tested.
    On that individual car yes, but deviation from whatever figure was used for type approval would be within a reasonable margin of error which the manufacturer will estimate. Presumably why most err on the side of reading too high by a decent margin. So the 1/2% variability due to different tyre sizes etc doesn't put them outside the type approval.

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Quote Originally Posted by herulach View Post
    On that individual car yes, but deviation from whatever figure was used for type approval would be within a reasonable margin of error which the manufacturer will estimate. Presumably why most err on the side of reading too high by a decent margin. So the 1/2% variability due to different tyre sizes etc doesn't put them outside the type approval.
    I think the whole type approval system depends on manufacturers showing that they have enough quality control in place that if the type approved cars were OK then all the ones they sell will be OK as well. So yeah, making them all read stupidly high does help with that

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    Treasure Hunter extraordinaire herulach's Avatar
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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I think the whole type approval system depends on manufacturers showing that they have enough quality control in place that if the type approved cars were OK then all the ones they sell will be OK as well. So yeah, making them all read stupidly high does help with that
    Thinking about it its also a decent way to game the fuel economy stuff. I don't know if that tests measures indicated or roadspeed, but if one manufacturer is testing at 58 and the other at 70 guess which is getting better numbers!

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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    Quote Originally Posted by herulach View Post
    10% + 2mph is an old police guideline and not law.
    I'm sorry but you are wrong its not old it's current.

    I suspect the OP must have been in a 20mph zone

    ACPO guidelines 2011-2015 are here: http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/...afer-roads.pdf

    See the table In 9.6

    This is a similar table:


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    Re: Speeding doesn't pay !!

    I have the letter here somewhere, definitely says that I exceeded the limit in a 30mph zone, that's what amazed me, the lack of leniency (speeding kills - just say no kids)

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