11th Hour....11th Day...11th Month

[megah0]

My grandfather was a desert rat too, the other one about whom we do not speak was a concientious objector.

I was an air cadet for aaages, I have sold poppies, marched in the band, carried the standard and blown the bugle. I will be on the route on sunday as they march through the local town. It is a very important day

[Shogun]

Suprised some Lefty Guardian reader hasn't demnded we stop this rememberance service just incase we offend <insert random group who are not offended in any way here>.

Like they have with Christmas and anything else that's a bit white or Christian.

Anyway, that aside, we will remember them.

[rant]So true, some towns have decided to call it "Winterfest" now. Even my parents said that it was going too far and neither of them are Christians. They are changing it because they don't want to offend the 'ethnic minorities' (even if they aren't the minority anymore). There won't be Christmas left in a few years I bet. [/rant]


They will be remembered, lost alot of family on my dads side in concentration camps

[5cupa]

Remembered them today.

as for offending minorities! what about what the majority would like for once.

and they wonder why people are racists or the BNP getting such a growing support. its because the 'politically correct brigade' are driving hatred and resentment by doing such acts as banning Santa.

this doesn't offend minorities it creates them.

I sure have to tolerate everyone else's religious festivals and beliefs. they can surely tolerate mine

[Shogun]

Remembered them today.

as for offending minorities! what about what the majority would like for once.

and they wonder why people are racists or the BNP getting support more support. its because the 'politically correct brigade' are driving hatred and resentment by doing such acts as banning Santa.

this doesn't offend minorities it creates them.

I sure have to tolerate everyone else's religious festivals and beliefs. they can surely tolerate mine

My sentiment exactly, think some of these posts should be cut and stuck in a thread in Serious discussion.

I am Jewish, (dad jewish, mum buddhist). All my friends at school are Christian/Atheist bar one. I don't tell them not to mention x-mas to me just because I don't celebrate it. Stupid tbh. Santa isn't religious as such either, I would class it more as tradition.

[turkster]

as for offending minorities! what about what the majority would like for once.

Well said

There are many more distressing things going on in the world today than a few people getting offended by Christmas .

[Stewart]

Remembered them today.

as for offending minorities! what about what the majority would like for once.

and they wonder why people are racists or the BNP getting such a growing support. its because the 'politically correct brigade' are driving hatred and resentment by doing such acts as banning Santa.

this doesn't offend minorities it creates them.

I sure have to tolerate everyone else's religious festivals and beliefs. they can surely tolerate mine

Scupa me old mate, you've hit the nail on the head; I can see that, you can see that, anyone with a braincell can see that, but alas, these Guardian reading, Liberal, PC, 'we know best' types insist on looking for problems that don't exsist and then forcing solutions on people.

And as you say, the result? A few more Xs in the box marked 'BNP' at the next election.

When will these people realise, that Muslims are not offended by us celebrating Christmas, they either join in or don't give a monkies. By trying to pander to a non-exsistant objection, you patronise the minorites (they don't need people assuming they can't walk down a street without getting offended by something or other) and force more people in the majority to extremeist parties who thrive on the notion that you can opt out of this PC nonsenseif you vote for them.

Its not Winterfest, its Christmas. No one has a problem with this, and there is no reason to call it anything else - and to be fair, if someone has a problem with it - tough. Its the way we do things here; but as I said, no one does.

Let me guess, there are no plans to rename Divalli next year? Of course not, because as we know, its only the majority who should have to have their culture and traditions changed to please everyone else.

What about a bit of tolerance? What about a bit of integration?

Let those who want to celebrate Christmas do so, whilst calling it Christmas, and those who want to celebrate Divalli do so, whilst calling it Divalli. Fine by me, fine by most right thinking people I'd assume, but for some reason not good enoguh for the PC brigade, and what do the PC brigade claim that they stand for?

Tolerance.

You have to laugh at them, you really do.

(Appologies for Off Topicness of rant, but it needs to be said, it really does)

Now, from one group of utterly useless people to a far finer group, one which deserves nothing but our gratitude and respect; those who gave their lives for our freedom...

[Barry]

The whole of toshiba were I work did this today (all 500 of us)

[nichomach]

Given that The Guardian's coverage (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...348779,00.html) has been pretty tasteful, I think your nasty little OT rant was actually just a bit too much, Stewart. No, it didn't need to be said. And given that, for instance, the first people from this country to actually face the Nazis in battle were from the left that you so deride who went to Spain, whilst the conservatives that you champion were busily appeasing Hitler because he was such a useful bulwark against communism, then it's also a little bit hypocritical. Now personally, my grandfather survived, by the skin of his teeth, by dint of being extremely badly wounded in North Africa and then invalided out in '42 after having to spend months in hospital. He'd volunteered for the Highland Light Infantry in '39, gone to France with the BEF, been evac'ed and then redeployed. Of course, he was a Labour voter, so whatever he might have thought or suffered doesn't count, does it, Stewart? Sheesh. You really just can't resist it, though, can you? Where an offence doesn't exist, you'll invent one, just so that you can get worked up about it and throw a few gratuitous insults around. I was happy enough that there were a few threads on the boards marking Remembrance Day, and guess what? Those of my friends who would read the Guardian are ALSO happy to mark it and wear their poppies. I marked the two minute silence as I usually do. Indeed our whole firm did. Personally, I spent it in that other activity that you so deride; prayer for the souls of the departed servicemen, and prayer for the wellbeing of our forces currently in the field.

[Stewart]

Given that The Guardian's coverage (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...348779,00.html) has been pretty tasteful, I think your nasty little OT rant was actually just a bit too much, Stewart. No, it didn't need to be said. And given that, for instance, the first people from this country to actually face the Nazis in battle were from the left that you so deride who went to Spain, whilst the conservatives that you champion were busily appeasing Hitler because he was such a useful bulwark against communism, then it's also a little bit hypocritical. Now personally, my grandfather survived, by the skin of his teeth, by dint of being extremely badly wounded in North Africa and then invalided out in '42 after having to spend months in hospital. He'd volunteered for the Highland Light Infantry in '39, gone to France with the BEF, been evac'ed and then redeployed. Of course, he was a Labour voter, so whatever he might have thought or suffered doesn't count, does it, Stewart? Sheesh. You really just can't resist it, though, can you? Where an offence doesn't exist, you'll invent one, just so that you can get worked up about it and throw a few gratuitous insults around. I was happy enough that there were a few threads on the boards marking Remembrance Day, and guess what? Those of my friends who would read the Guardian are ALSO happy to mark it and wear their poppies. I marked the two minute silence as I usually do. Indeed our whole firm did. Personally, I spent it in that other activity that you so deride; prayer for the souls of the departed servicemen, and prayer for the wellbeing of our forces currently in the field.

Touched a nerve I see. Probably best we move this to Question Time if we are going to go at it, right vs left again.

I will say though, that of course, politics aside, our grandfathers died side-by-side, fighting for our freedom. Just a shame that now, what they died fighting for is seen as something to be ashamed of by the middle-class left in this country. No group of people despises their own culture and their own traditions as much as they do.

I'm sure every rightminded person did fall silent today as a mark of respect, but I'm also sure that those who would sneer at anything which could possibly show us Brits in a positive light come from the sneering left. Can't possibly risk offending someone somewhere, can we?

Can't put a flag out the window on St George's day or during the football can we? Might offend random minority #46. This nonsense, you know as well as I do, can not be laid at my door or those like me. You wont find me thinking up ever more bizare ways to find problems where there are none.

I'll be calling Christmas exactly that, and I'll be hanging a flag out my windows on St George's day, I'm sure you will be as well Nicky boy. Unless the Guardian convinces you that only BNP supporters or those insensative to ethnic minorites would stoop to such behaviour.

And don't give me all that stuff about ignorant sterotyping - we both know where this PC nonsense comes from - its Liberal do-gooder types.

The sort of people who read the Guardian, if you like.

[nichomach]

Couldn't you have just inserted links to your earlier posts, Stewie-boy? After all, you're just rehashing the same rubbish, and it wouldn't have involved you so thoroughly hijacking a thread which was supposed to be for remembrance. And this rehash is what you IM'ed me to "brace myself" for? Oh dearie, dearie me...

[Stewart]

The bracing shall be needed should this thread be moved to QT, as you know, its only there that we can take the gloves off.

Now however, as you say, best we let this thread get back on topic...

[Rave]

Now however, as you say, best we let this thread get back on topic...

Yeah, but would it not have been a better idea to not take it off topic in the first place?

Your massive rant about Political Correctness was not only completely irrelevant, it's also as far as I can see completely unfounded. I have NEVER come across an actual, official allusion to 'Winterfest'. I'm pretty sure a tabloid made it up. Show me proof that there actually is a huge, uncontrollable outbreak of 'PC nonsense' ruining Christmas this year and I'll happily reconsider.....

Rich :¬)

[Stewart]

Yeah, but would it not have been a better idea to not take it off topic in the first place?

Your massive rant about Political Correctness was not only completely irrelevant, it's also as far as I can see completely unfounded. I have NEVER come across an actual, official allusion to 'Winterfest'. I'm pretty sure a tabloid made it up. Show me proof that there actually is a huge, uncontrollable outbreak of 'PC nonsense' ruining Christmas this year and I'll happily reconsider.....

Rich :¬)

Strange how you seem to object Rave, when others, Shogun, Turkster, Scupa, etc, agree. As you have as much common sense as everyone else, I can only assume you feel guilty by association.

If, however, its because rather laughably, you actualy believe that PC is an invention of the tabloids, then allow me to enlighten you:

The Scotish Parliment 'advised' its members not to send Christmas cards a few years back, to avoid offending those who do not celebrate Christmas.

The Bullring this year has banned that most evil of BNP representatives - Santa Clause this year. A spokesman said, and I quote - "We wish to be sensitive to people of other religions over the festive period. There are a lot of people in the region who are not Christians and do not celebrate Christmas."

Of course, any right minded person will tell you, having a Santa in a shop at Christmas would offend any passing Muslim or Hindu.

After loads of calls from not very pleased customers, I think the Bullring coped out with - 'supporting Birmingham City Council’s Grotto in Centenary Square.'

Burton on Trent council is also promoting the word Winterfest instead of Christmas as well, I assume for the same reasons. They also tried this last year, with Winterval, as did other places.

So Rave, me old mucker, common sense or PC mush? Your call.

Whilst you chew it over, I'll leave you with my favorite quote of the week from the local news show 'Midlands Today' - "Send us an email telling us whether the word "Christmas" is outdated and should be changed .......meanwhile, it's the end of the Holy month of Ramadan this weekend...."

Any plans to change the name of Ramadan in case it offends non-Muslims? No? What a suprise.

[Stewart]

Read this site as well, should be right up your street.

http://www.capc.co.uk/

[Knoxville]

The pc lot cannot in any way have a go at us remembering those who have fought for us or indeed died for they're country on the opposing side because it would be shooting themselves in the foot tbh, had we not fought then hitlers ethnic cleansing would have wiped every minority off the face of the earth.

And don't get me started on the christmas thing, had a huge rant in the pub about it a few days ago when I read about it, its plainly ridiculous.

[Stewart]

The pc lot cannot in any way have a go at us remembering those who have fought for us or indeed died for they're country on the opposing side because it would be shooting themselves in the foot tbh, had we not fought then hitlers ethnic cleansing would have wiped every minority off the face of the earth.

Even the most hardened sneering lefty would not dare openly go as far as trying to rubbish the remembrance service, nor would any right-minded person want to, but rest assured, for a large majority, us Brits remembering those who died fighting for us, having a sense of pride in our countrymen, and maybe even the odd bit of flag waving, puts their nose out of joint.

They'd rather be telling us how ashamed we should be for supporting the current war in Iraq, not clouding the issue with previous examples of the brave British forces facing down a foreign threat. Not good for the next anti-war headline you see.

And of course, having a sense of pride in your country and heartfelt thanks for those who died fighting for it is a little too close to patriotism, which any member of the sneering left will turn into nationalism, and then outright racism, given half the chance. Again, not good for the next headline...

Rave has a point in as much as, some tabloids would over egg a story if it fits with their agenda, after all, we all remember the vile depths to which the Daily Mirror stooped to strengthen their anti-War stance (publishing fake photo's of our boys mistreating Iraqi captives, if anyone needs their memory jogged), and I'm not the sort to go on about about the lefty papers doing this whilst convincing myself that the rightwing papers would not do the same.

Having said that, there are direct quotes in the papers about the Santa \ Christmas situation, and as I said, all it leads to is the ordinary working man getting annoyed, whilst no problem is solved as there was not a problem to solve in the first place.

'And don't get me started on the Christmas thing, had a huge rant in the pub about it a few days ago when I read about it, its plainly ridiculous.'

See?