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Thread: Bob Crow Dies

  1. #17
    ho! ho! ho! mofo santa claus's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeStorm View Post
    You said true working class would be proud, so I wondered what those people would be in your opinion.
    Misguided, misinformed, making a mistake and miserable .

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by opel80uk View Post
    You might not like a particular label, or you might wish to pretend you are something else, but whether you feel proud or not, you are what you are.
    I am what I am without needing anyone applying an arbitrary and artificial label to tell me (or anyone else) what 'class' I am supposed to be.
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    So you are linking social class to income?

    The perpetuation of class distinction is mainly due to the left wing, who have to maintain the working class mentality to secure their own power base.

    One of the sadder things I see in my working life is the misguided loyalty to "my class" that holds bright intelligent people from progressing into management where they could have done so much more to help those they were working with. On more than one occasion, I have been told that they would be seen as "selling out" to "management". The opportunity was there, but so was the intimidation from within to prevent a suitable candidate from taking it. Fortunately that seems to have changed, although there is still an "us and them" mentality portrayed by some on the left.
    Have you ever asked yourself how this ‘intimidation from within’ was able to portray an ‘us and them’ mentality in the first place? Presumably, if these people were being touted as potential management material, they would have had something upstairs that would have told them whether there was a genuine issue with management’s behavior towards the staff that was leading to an us or them attitude, or whether it was simply bluster from others who were furthering their own agenda.

    I would suggest that, if they were simply intimidated not to take a job by spurious accusations of an ‘us and them’ environment, they probably were not management material in the first place. By the way, I’m unsure as to what sort of environment you were working in when this happened, but from my own experience, I was actively encouraged & supported by my Union colleagues to further my career and join management during my time in the NHS. It makes sense that, even from the point of furthering their own agenda, Unions (and by extension the left) would want sympathetic people within management.

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    ho! ho! ho! mofo santa claus's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Aw, come on now peter, how can we be sure you won't MODify your contribution once you have the benefit of hindsight

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I am what I am
    And quoting popeye is unfair!
    Last edited by santa claus; 11-03-2014 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Quote added

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    There are 7 social classes it seems now, I still can't be bothered with "class identity" though:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22007058

    And RIP Bob, though I do or did disagree rather with him on Tube modernisation which in my view is needed to make life easier for commuters etc.
    Last edited by The Hand; 12-03-2014 at 11:17 PM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I am what I am without needing anyone applying an arbitrary and artificial label to tell me (or anyone else) what 'class' I am supposed to be.
    Whilst I would argue that it is certainly not arbitrary, of course it's your right to reject any label you wish, as is mine, but it doesn’t change whether that label is applicable or not. I could, for example reject the label of, say, ‘white’, but that doesn’t stop me from actually being white.

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    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeStorm View Post
    Wouldn't the working class include many of those who were affected by the tube strikes and so who probably wouldn't be sad at his passing (anymore than the passing of anyone relatively young)
    Only if they blamed bob crow personally for the strikes for some bizarre reason, after all industrial action is taken as a last resort following a democratic ballot of thousands of workers and not just on the whim of the gen sec of one of the unions.

    Although if they insist on blaming someone personally, that person can only be boris johnson whose dereliction of duty and broken campaign promises made strike action more unavoidable than anything any trades unionist ever said or did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    What kind of person wallows in the death of someone, even if he was grade A liar, who held other people to randsom in a most reprehensible way.

    The only way people who dislike someone like him can really feel any kind of victory is with a reversal of mind set from the said man. In that respect all those (including me) who despised his bullying tactics should feel no pride, my ideology isn't at all vindicated by his death. If anything, my views on how unions extract money from those who are the most vulnerable to support a lucky nepotist few was excellently demonstrated by his being alive.

    It's not as if tomorrow the tube lines will all switch on to driverless 24 hour service for 50p a day.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    the man who called a strike from a yacht in the Bahamas....

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by opel80uk View Post
    Whilst I would argue that it is certainly not arbitrary, of course it's your right to reject any label you wish, as is mine, but it doesn’t change whether that label is applicable or not. I could, for example reject the label of, say, ‘white’, but that doesn’t stop me from actually being white.
    But that is a label based on a recogniseable physical characteristic, not some nebulous undefined arbitrary concept.
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by HalloweenJack View Post
    the man who called a strike from a yacht in the Bahamas....
    No he was a good typical unionist, he clocked out early. It's rather ironic that he suffered from congested tubes.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    But that is a label based on a recogniseable physical characteristic, not some nebulous undefined arbitrary concept.
    Some could argue that white is an equally ‘nebulous undefined arbitrary concept’. For example my Dad was from the Mediterranean and was quite sallow. Some would have called him ‘white’, others would (and did) say that he wasn’t white. Is there some definitive classification that would indeed tell me whether he was white or not?

    And, equally, in what way is the term working class any more of a nebulous undefined arbitrary concept? Whilst defining who the working classes are may be complex, and is a more fluid term than it previously was, with perhaps Proletariat (Marx usage, not the Roman’s) a more appropriate term, your description as something that is a ‘nebulous undefined arbitrary concept’ is certainly not something I recognise. In fact I would argue the opposite; it’s usually pretty easy to definitively determine.

    At the end of the day, anyone is entitled to reject any label, or pretend a specific label doesn’t apply to them when it does, but that pretending or rejection doesn’t make it so, per se. I know lots of working class people who choose to not self-identify as that; that’s their right and, whilst I don’t understand it, I would never criticise them for it. But it doesn’t in any way change the fact that they are working class.

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by HalloweenJack View Post
    the man who called a strike from a yacht in the Bahamas....
    Yawn...... no one individual can call a strike, only the union members. Bob Crow, as leader, simply announced the result. Still, these tired, old, factually incorrect, clichés do make for good Daily Mail headlines I guess.

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    If anything, my views on how unions extract money from those who are the most vulnerable to support a lucky nepotist few was excellently demonstrated by his being alive.
    I've heard you say that a few times now. Do you have any evidence for this? Or are you making an assumption that people who willingly pay their Union membership fees must have been coerced into it, simply because you don't like it?

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by opel80uk View Post
    Yawn...... no one individual can call a strike, only the union members. Bob Crow, as leader, simply announced the result. Still, these tired, old, factually incorrect, clichés do make for good Daily Mail headlines I guess.
    yawn - someone else who seems to think its perfectly fine for a driver to earn more than 2 nurses or 2 teachers - yeah good game that.

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    Re: Bob Crow Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by HalloweenJack View Post
    yawn - someone else who seems to think its perfectly fine for a driver to earn more than 2 nurses or 2 teachers - yeah good game that.
    That is, quite possibly, the single most perfect example of an Aunt Sally I have ever seen, anywhere. Some feat that.

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