Bob Crow Dies

[opel80uk]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26527325

No doubt there won't be too many singing his praises on here, but he done an awful lot for his members and was a good man for us working classes. Won't be forgotten, by us at least, in a hurry.

RIP

[Saracen]

I certainly won't be singing his praises, as I intensely disliked most of his politics. But I'm also certainly not gladdened by this.

I do have a personal "better dead" list, but it's reserved for the like of Saddam Hussein, whose demise, personally, I feel improved the gene pool and raised the average decency of humanity. But Crow isn't even close to being on it. He came across as a decent and sincere bloke that I just happened to disagree with, politically.

I do feel sad for family and friends, as I do for family and friends of anyone I didn't know, following their loss.

[peterb]

He was very good at his job, which was representing the membership of the RMT, although the way he did it was more reminiscent of the confrontational approach of the 1980's. However, behind the somewhat comic (and in his words) "pantomime villain" facade, there lay a very shrewd and intelligent man.

However, I expect there are many Londoners, inconvenienced by the recent Tube strikes, who will not be shedding many tears over his untimely death. And as that will include most people who work, he perhaps wasn't that good for the majority of the "working class" - depending on your definition of that somewhat outdated term.

Sad that he should die so young, but no sadder than any other person who dies unexpectedly at a relatively young age.

[herulach]

Indeed, he was very good at his job, interestingly enough I was going to revive the tube strike thread to post his interview on PM from last night, doesn't really seem appropriate now.

[JPreston]

I heard that interview too, it was only yesterday...I bet Eric Pickles won't agree to be featured on pm any time soon.

[opel80uk]

He was very good at his job, which was representing the membership of the RMT, although the way he did it was more reminiscent of the confrontational approach of the 1980's. However, behind the somewhat comic (and in his words) "pantomime villain" facade, there lay a very shrewd and intelligent man.

However, I expect there are many Londoners, inconvenienced by the recent Tube strikes, who will not be shedding many tears over his untimely death. And as that will include most people who work, he perhaps wasn't that good for the majority of the "working class" - depending on your definition of that somewhat outdated term.

Sad that he should die so young, but no sadder than any other person who dies unexpectedly at a relatively young age.

The problem is, what most people involved in the Unions, and those on the opposite side of the fence who had to deal with the RMT knew, was that Crow was actually fairly moderate, certainly compared to other, powerful groups within that union. The in-joke was that, despite his media portrayal, management and politicians were actually quite happy to deal with him because he was straight and, in their eyes at least, willing to reasonably negotiate most of the time. There are elements of the RMT who, and I am talking from personal knowledge, make Crow look like a right winger with their views. If one of them takes over, I can guarantee that most people will come to look back quite fondly at Crow’s reign.

And working class outdated? If you say so. The reason why most people, working class or otherwise, will look back less fondly at the strikes is because we have become a society the self-absorbed, interested mainly in the ‘I’. He was good for the working class, exemplified by his efforts to improve conditions for his own members, but not restricted to just that. He supported numerous other working class causes. Had there been more Union leaders like him, there would be more of the working class better off. That some working class choose to turn their face away from the bigger picture and instead focus on themselves, doesn’t change that.

[peterb]

But what do you mean by "Working class"? The majority of people in this country work for a living, although not all of them belong to a Trade Union. So how do you define a member of "The working class".

[opel80uk]

But what do you mean by "Working class"? The majority of people in this country work for a living, although not all of them belong to a Trade Union. So how do you define a member of "The working class".

You don’t need to be in a Union to benefit from the Union. LU workers still availed of the improved conditions attained by the RMT, regardless of whether they were members or not.

As for who is working class, I see nothing from Marx’s definition that wouldn’t be applicable today. It’s terms such as middle class that are outdated today, the vast majority of whom are actually just working class on a better salary than the majority, and changed immeasurably from say the time of the bourgeois. The working class have been a constant, however.

[GeorgeStorm]

Wouldn't the working class include many of those who were affected by the tube strikes and so who probably wouldn't be sad at his passing (anymore than the passing of anyone relatively young)

[santa claus]

Wouldn't the working class include many of those who were affected by the tube strikes and so who probably wouldn't be sad at his passing (anymore than the passing of anyone relatively young)

True working class will have been proud to participate in the action even if it was temporarily to their inconvenience; those working class who are earning a few bob more who feel they have 'elevated' to some other kind of social group will no doubt wallow in the passing of a man the likes of whom they owe greatly for the opportunity of the prosperity they now enjoy.

[peterb]

True working class will have been proud to participate in the action even if it was temporarily to their inconvenience; those working class who are earning a few bob more who feel they have 'elevated' to some other kind of social group will no doubt wallow in the passing of a man the likes of whom they owe greatly for the opportunity of the prosperity they now enjoy.

So you are linking social class to income?

The perpetuation of class distinction is mainly due to the left wing, who have to maintain the working class mentality to secure their own power base.

One of the sadder things I see in my working life is the misguided loyalty to "my class" that holds bright intelligent people from progressing into management where they could have done so much more to help those they were working with. On more than one occasion, I have been told that they would be seen as "selling out" to "management". The opportunity was there, but so was the intimidation from within to prevent a suitable candidate from taking it. Fortunately that seems to have changed, although there is still an "us and them" mentality portrayed by some on the left.

[santa claus]

So you are linking social class with income?

No, but there are those who, naively, do.

[GeorgeStorm]

So what about those who don't feel proud despite being working class according to thier job?

[santa claus]

So what about those who don't feel proud despite being working class according to thier job?

Um, what about those who don't feel proud despite being working class according to thier (sic) job?

[opel80uk]

So what about those who don't feel proud despite being working class according to thier job?

You might not like a particular label, or you might wish to pretend you are something else, but whether you feel proud or not, you are what you are.

[GeorgeStorm]

Um, what about those who don't feel proud despite being working class according to thier (sic) job?

You said true working class would be proud, so I wondered what those people would be in your opinion.