Odd question

[Bonebreaker777]

Not sure where to put this but I usually have some odd question and I have a hard time to find answers. Some of which are a bit of taboo or such. Will start with a easy one

If you are a healthy person, by general terms and by no means in need of blood transfusion, what happens when you have some blood transfusion?Aka you are given extra blood you don't (really) need.

Effect on the body and mind, if any.

How much extra blood you could gain and carry (of course the right blood group and such) before having any adverse effects of such a deed?

[kalniel]

Your body will just reduce blood volume back to normal levels over time. Mostly done via kidneys, so you're increasing loading on them, which over a long time might be a problem. Fluid volume is quite quick to adjust, red cell mass slower, so you'll have higher oxygen carrying capability for a bit - hence EPO/transfusion cheats in cycling etc.

[Bonebreaker777]

Your body will just reduce blood volume back to normal levels over time. Mostly done via kidneys, so you're increasing loading on them, which over a long time might be a problem. Fluid volume is quite quick to adjust, red cell mass slower, so you'll have higher oxygen carrying capability for a bit - hence EPO/transfusion cheats in cycling etc.

Interesting. Short term one off occasions could be ok then? Would be the extra workload on the kidneys still a factor even if it does involve the break down of the own red blood cells of the body instead of toxins and such?

[MrJim]

Although all blood products are tested prior to being given to patients, there is a nominal risk of contracting a blood borne disease following a transfusion. That's why people who receive blood transfusions aren't allowed to donate blood (I believe that regulation came in after the whole new-variant CJD thing).

[kalniel]

Interesting. Short term one off occasions could be ok then? Would be the extra workload on the kidneys still a factor even if it does involve the break down of the own red blood cells of the body instead of toxins and such?

Short one offs would be no problem at all - your body is regulating it all the time anyway. Any kind of prolonged increase in blood pressure is a long term health risk to kidneys, hence smoking, diabetes, alcohol etc.

[MrJim]

Interesting. Short term one off occasions could be ok then? Would be the extra workload on the kidneys still a factor even if it does involve the break down of the own red blood cells of the body instead of toxins and such?

If I remember my A level biology correctly, the kidneys are primarily involved in osmoregulation (the removal of fluid & maintenance of salinity) from our bodies. The liver processes the removal of unneeded cells & toxins in the body (which is why alcohol for example, can cause sclerosis of the liver).

[finlay666]

Some athletes do it, take their own blood then receive a transfusion for a boost in red blood cells
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

Obviously banned in sports

[Bonebreaker777]

How you test against taking your own blood? Too high red blood cell count? Wonder what does it feel like

Also, liver vs toxins. Does increased muscle activity thus more toxins to take care off or breaking down own blood cells affects the liver more negatively?

[kalniel]

How you test against taking your own blood? Too high red blood cell count? Wonder what does it feel like

Also, liver vs toxins. Does increased muscle activity thus more toxins to take care off or breaking down own blood cells affects the liver more negatively?

The simplest test is a history of RBC counts - we know the normal variation caused by boosts via altitude training etc. and if it's outside of that range you investigate further. So a biological passport as it were. There may be some other changes that you could detect from the fact that blood taken from the body is not going to be as fresh, or will be treated in some way to keep it 'fresh'. Tricky, though probably not impossible knowing the science thrown at anti-doping these days.

As for what it feels like, you can find out - go do some altitude training and then come back That's a legitimate way of boosting RBC count. Alternatively give blood and see what the reverse is like In my own experiences it's just that your 'breathless' point moves and the amount of activity you can do before you get second wind or your breathing/heart increases changes.

Sorry, misread your last question. Which affects the liver more negatively? Muscle activity doesn't really produce any toxins the liver has difficulty with, but it is involved in just about everything so all the breakdown of fats, controlling blood sugar levels etc. in response to exercise are done by the liver, but it can cope fine. In a normal liver breaking down excess RBCs is also no problem, though I guess if you completely loaded that aspect you might start looking jaundiced!

[Bonebreaker777]

Well, don't think I will be able to put some of my own blood into the fridge for a week or two and then take it back, using only kitchen utensils.

Also the altitude training is out the window. Not going to do this to leave the UK.

The alternative of altitude training as well is out - mask or filters to restrict air intake. Would make the Sun's Monday:

"Weirdo with a mask spotted in the woods. Military conspiracy?".

Left only holding back my breath while running or ruining the heavy bag - anaerobic exercises. Should work in a way.