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It's amazing to me that such a developed nation, can be so backwards.
It's amazing to me that such a developed nation, can be so backwards.
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aidanjt (25-11-2014),KeyboardDemon (25-11-2014)
His argument falls apart when you consider that guns are not banned in Australia, firearms ownership stands at about 5% of the population, and extends to the ownership of pistols and full bore rifles, semi auto full bore rifles can also be owned by professional hunters (I assume pest control). Many people think firearms are banned in the UK (especially Americans), although we have restrictions and licensing, we can own quiet a wide range of firearms.
Last edited by Flibb; 20-11-2014 at 11:37 PM.
Norway has strong restrictions on firearms ownership also, yet we know what happened there. While there is a tendency toward rash action after a mass shooting, the issue is far more complicated than that. The overall violent crime rate in the US is dropping every year, we are getting safer, and there is evidence to suggest that relaxing firearms restrictions has actually helped to reduce that crime rate.
It is technically banned as it's not easy/very impossible to get a licence here. Plus u can bet your mortgage that it is illegal to carry a fire arm in public tooOriginally Posted by Flibb
What percentage of the population had access to guns before the 'ban'?
I'm sure the 15 minutes or so of this show would not have been anywhere near as entertaining if he had decided to stick to all the facts exactly as they are however if after the government's introduction of new laws far fewer people can now carry guns as were able to before, then I think that would be fair to call it a ban on guns.
Myself I find it amazing that the US puts so few restrictions on guns, as if honest people need them to keep away the 'dishonest' people. The statistics do not back this up.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
It's the old remark, on average, the citizen who has a gun in their home is over twice as likely to kill themselves or a family member than an intruder.
As a result decreasing the gun ownership is obviously a good idea, so long as violent crime is continuing to fall (which it is globally in the first world).
The problem is that for every gun law that comes in, idiocy circumvents it. Gun Shows being a classic example.
There are large populations of people in the US for whom a gun makes sense, many parts are a wilderness, but the fact is you can still control this. Having a license that is required to ammunition purchase makes a lot of sense. The RFID technology to do this is so cheap.
Additionally rules about storage at home, and restricting access to it could be introduced, much like we have in the UK.
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It's far deeper and more involved a subject than just, "I want a gun", or, "I have a right to protect myself". It's a right written into the constitution in large part as a civic responsibility.
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I think it's a case of the genie already being out of the bottle. Guns & gun ownership are so ingrained into American society, that it would be near to impossible to get rid of them now. It does amaze me that in many States, it's perfectly legal to walk into a shop & buy a gun three years before you can legally buy a beer in a bar!
What is the logic behind linking suicide and home invasions with relation to gun ownership? The US has almost exactly the same suicide rate as the UK. Advocating for gun laws to prevent suicide clearly doesn't work. Aside from that, the goal of defending your home from an intruder isn't to kill. The most current research into defensive uses of a gun, even when it isn't fired, suggests a rate closer to 100:1. There is a huge volume of research supporting John Lott's 'More guns, less crime,', hypothesis, including a congressional review.
Laws requiring restricted access in the home are obviously going to do nothing to address suicide, laws requiring that children don't have access already exist.
I'm not sure what issue you have with gun shows. The recent 'gun show loophole' is an entirely fabricated argument. No loophole exists under federal law.
It is indeed a civic responsibility. Someone carrying a gun has the ability to protect themselves. It's no wonder that the rate of attempted muggings and violent crime in general has reduced more in states that allow concealed carry, as oppose to those which don't.
Only a Rifle or Shotgun, not a handgun, but this is criticism of the idiotic, puritanical attitudes to alcohol more than anything else.
It's about the availability of them. The same idea as limiting sale of paracetamol to fewer tablets per transaction.
The statistic is valid, the gun is more likely to harm you or a family member, than act as a protection device.
It's more a case of how can you prevent people who are unstable from having access to weapons, the key thing from the report I linked was the access that people had to the weapon. As the common groups for attempting suicide are not normally the father figure.I was under the impression that certain towns made an industry selling guns to Mexican cartels!
The fact is as wikipedia states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
Which is the issue, that's terrible for controlling something. There isn't any real checking or restriction going on with private sales.
Not to mention the lack of identification on ammunition. In the UK if someone stole your licensed firearm and you hadn't made adequate steps to keep it safe, you'd be liable.
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It may be more likely to be used in suicide than kill an intruder, but it certainly isn't more likely to be used to harm you than protect you. That's a very different statement, and utterly false.It's about the availability of them. The same idea as limiting sale of paracetamol to fewer tablets per transaction.
The statistic is valid, the gun is more likely to harm you or a family member, than act as a protection device.
It's more a case of how can you prevent people who are unstable from having access to weapons, the key thing from the report I linked was the access that people had to the weapon. As the common groups for attempting suicide are not normally the father figure.I was under the impression that certain towns made an industry selling guns to Mexican cartels!
The fact is as wikipedia states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
Which is the issue, that's terrible for controlling something. There isn't any real checking or restriction going on with private sales.
Not to mention the lack of identification on ammunition. In the UK if someone stole your licensed firearm and you hadn't made adequate steps to keep it safe, you'd be liable.
As for the 'gun show loophole', there are, in most states, no restrictions on sales between private individuals. Sales from a business are required to follow the same background check laws as any other gun shop. The gun show going on in the background changes nothing, there is no loophole in federal laws relating to gun shows. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
Entire US towns on't have an industry selling guns to cartels. That's the US government's job.
In the US if someone stole your firearm and you hadn't made adequate steps to keep it safe, you'd be liable.
As often is the case it's not guns but people that are the problem, granted giving problem people guns is going to worsen the situation.
Switzerland is one of the key examples here, which has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world but also one of the lowest murder rates, granted the high ownership rate is in a large part from the national service & militia system in Switzerland which means that almost every male over the age of 20 is given a SIG-SG550 assault rifle after their basic training and has to keep it in their home, regular target range practise is also encouraged and the government actually subsidises the privet sale of swiss 5.56mm standard military rounds at target ranges.
Although it should also be noted that murder involving firearms is higher in Switzerland than most of europe.
Here's a fun interactive map http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...-homicides-map
It's also worth noting that the worst high school killings in history happen in the US in 1927, Andrew Philip Kehoe, killing 44 people and injuring 58 with dynamite, not guns.
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Here, you can legally have sex two years before watching it...
and you can buy a cigarette on a plane.. and not be allowed to smoke it
you can buy condoms, porn and sec toys in public.. but not sport a naked erection
and you CAN walk in public with a firearm.. it must be unloaded and in a gun slip.. but it's still there.. with you.. in the high street on the way to the gun shop.
you can carry a certain length folding knife ..but 1 mm longer or it be a lock knife.. and it's all change...
my point: laws evolve, they are organic.. and the dont all tie together locially like wasps and giraffes dont make sense if you take them apart.. but they do work for the life they evolved to live themselves.
Gun law per se is not to be blamed... and guns are not to be blamed at all.....its humans and you just cant control them properly....
I remember in the 80's when lots of people in public/footbal matches/pubs were being cut badly ..not in fights, but by walk bye's... not with flick knives.. or lock knives.. but with craft knives. You dont even feel a craft knife cut.. and you don't fel it being snapped off in you either.. but you still die soon after.. of your leg stops working.. and you bleed to death. Or your arm won't move. and you bleed to death
Craft knives are not to blame.
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