Ebay,Returns and advice chaps! Update! i WON!

So long story short i sold a laptop on ebay, had it upgraded to win 8, some apps didn't work....still the laptop worked fine.

Now onto the interesting part, the person i sold it to has now decided (almost 2 weeks later) that the apps dont work and internet explorer doesnt even work.

Now from my understanding this does not make the laptop faulty as....in desktop mode the laptop works perfectly fine and so does internet explorer, the laptop was also working fine when i had it.

Does anyone know where i actually stand with regards to this? the biggest problem i have is i don't actually have the money in the bank anymore due to spending it on xmas o.O so i cant even give a refund if i tried eeek.

Little help and suggestions on this one would be really appreciated :( sad times!

(i did state in auction that no refunds are offered unless it was damaged in post which obviously it was not)

Has he left you positive feedback, prior to the complaint & Did he pay via paypal.

If the auction stated no returns, then I would have thought that was pretty damn final......

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Originally Posted by shaithis

If the auction stated no returns, then I would have thought that was pretty damn final......

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Statements don't usually have much value, certainly Ebay terms and consumer laws trump them.

2 weeks is quite a bit of time, but I personally have bought items off ebay and only tested them days/weeks later.
I think the buyer has something like 45 days to lodge a case

In your listing were you specific about upgrading it and then certain apps not working etc etc??
I know what you mean that it's partially working but according to ebay, a used item is

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An item that has been previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or an item that has been returned to the seller after a period of use. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

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From my experience with ebay/paypal, Paypal always side with the buyer. So unless you were specific in your listing, I'd contact the buyer and try and help him resolve it.
If this doesn't work, and you have to go through the dispute - have them open the case. Maybe they've done this a few times before and ebay will take it into account and might side with you

Brace for the buyer getting a free laptop.

Tiles and IE not connecting to the internet in Metro mode is a not uncommon problem, I had to fix it on my fiancée's dad's computer.

From memory it was caused by some malware installed with GIMP (why don't they provide binaries!), though I'm sure there are many other sources it could come from. Something underneath about proxy settings being changed, un-installing all the junk seemed to fix it.

Fingers crossed it works out for you.

This was why I asked about Feedback and paypal.

If good feedback has been left. then paypal will side with the seller. However if no feedback has been left, and the item was paid via paypal, Then your going to have a fight, 90% of the time, paypal side with the buyer when a dispute is launched, as buyers tend to do charge backs.

Personally, I never use any funds from my paypal account, until feedback has been left by the purchaser.

Sorry about the late follow up, gf went into labour and been abit hetic!

Either way i decided i would fight the case as much as possible as this became interesting to read,

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre...tml#changemind

Basically a lot of the rules apply to business sellers, which i am not i am a private seller and i made sure that i put no returns on the listing. i looked at the persons feedback and it seems that alot of the electrical items she has bought she hasleft negitive feedback stating it not as described....get a feeling she is a scammer.

So watch this space!

Was actually just about to ask how this was going.. :)

Good luck with the outcome of this.. not to mention the outcome of the labour.. it's not still ongoing I hope! Congrats, anyway! :thumbsup:

I'm pretty sure ebay's legal team would in the end side with you as the hardware worked correctly for two weeks and the problem is evidently down to a windows 8 problem. Also from what you say about her feedback, i'd point that out when you contact ebay. Stick to your guns and fight it all the way, you will win... but won't get an apology :(

Really interested in hearing how this goes for you. We had a problem earlier in the year, where the person buying the product claimed it was a fake. They eventually went and had it examined by an expert and gave us a good review but it left us feeling that we had little protection from any would be scammers.

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Originally Posted by TaintedShirt

Really interested in hearing how this goes for you. We had a problem earlier in the year, where the person buying the product claimed it was a fake. They eventually went and had it examined by an expert and gave us a good review but it left us feeling that we had little protection from any would be scammers.

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Mate bought a satellite receiver from ebay, didn't do what he wanted to sold it on.

Buyer said it was a fake, so paypal refunded him. Mate asked to be refunded as it bought it from ebay, refused!

Same item, different outcome.

Heard some horror stories about this type of thing. One guy I heard sold a ps3 and the buyer complained saying it wasn't working and returned a broken one. Not the same one but they had no proof so eBay left them screwed. Really hope this works out for you.

I tend not to spend the money from eBay sales until I've received positive confirmation and feedback from the buyer. I've had to issue refunds that left me in the lurch before.

Oh and I always take down/photograph serial numbers etc and let my buyer know that I have done this.

I have to say their terms appear purposely vague for private sellers. For business sellers its another matter

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Originally Posted by http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/return-policy.html

As a private seller you may voluntarily offer returns

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http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/return-policy.html

I too have had a problem with this when selling a motherboard. Paypal simply refunded them immediately without me being able to respond.
Yet it was their fault it didn't meet their requirements, incompatible CPU - not my fault!!!

Did anyone say eBay, ah.. my cup of tea!

OP, the best thing you can do now is tell the the buyer to return it and promise him that you will refund in full and also reimburse his return costs.
When you get your laptop back, refund and reimburse and pray that the buyer does not leave -ve feedback for you! Also open a Cancel transaction case to get your FVF back.
Add the buyer to your blocked buyers list and then sell the laptop again and hope that this time the new buyer won't complain.
Even though you said No returns accepted, eBay have recently changed rules allowing a buyer to open a case and return an item anytime within the 45 days after a sale. The buyer also has 60 days to leave you -ve feedback after a sale. If you are near the 45 days mark, drag on the issue till it is 60 days ( by saying you are on holiday, etc ) and then show the buyer the finger.

I know it's time consuming and costs you money, but it's the only way these days to survive on eBay as a seller.

I believe in the past, there may have been a way to first authorise a sale by looking at the buyer's name and feedback and then let the transaction proceed. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Certainly saved a lot of sellers from scams by Nigerians or fraud by Italians and East Europeans.

Let me give you a taste of my experience with a buyer :
Sold a laptop HDD
Buyer opens case saying item is faulty
I tell buyer to send item back
Item arrives and I find that item works
I tell buyer and then he claims that laptop hard drives are usually smaller .. what smaller than the std size of 2.5" ???
I refund buyer minus my postage cost I incurred in sending to him
eBay and Paypal refund him in full and the (edited by Admin) leaves me -ve feedback ! :angst:

Yes, Ive heard of people sending signed for Christmas cards out lately saying thanks for the money instead of items.
Luckily most people seem to be decent and you can often tell if you email them before going through with a deal.
I dont think i would buy or sell something for hundreds of pounds on Ebay.

The buyer might not let you drag things out until time runs out either. I certainly wouldnt after losing just under £100 due to giving a foreign seller the benefit of the doubt when they said the item must have been lost in the post and that they would send another and then saying they had been sick so had been delayed in sending a replacement etc,

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Originally Posted by OilSheikh

Even though you said No returns accepted, eBay have recently changed rules allowing a buyer to open a case and return an item anytime within the 45 days after a sale. The buyer also has 60 days to leave you -ve feedback after a sale. If you are near the 45 days mark, drag on the issue till it is 60 days ( by saying you are on holiday, etc ) and then show the buyer the finger.

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And its attitudes like that that make me very wary of buying off Ebay.

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Originally Posted by peterb

And its attitudes like that that make me very wary of buying off Ebay.

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Likewise. And even warier about selling on it.

These days my stance is pretty much that I won't sell on eBay (mind you, nothing much has changed there) and I won't buy unless either the amount is trivial and I'm prepared to write it off entirely if need be, or the seller is someone in whom I feel I can trust. And I'm not naturally a trusting person, on this sort of issue, as regulars here may have, erm, noticed. ;)

Put it this way. I do not trust eBay, or PayPal, to look fairly or objectively.

If the transaction, directly with the seller, was a business-to-consumer (me) relationship, then MAYBE I put some trust in it. If the seller is an individual, then it needs to be someone with extensive and excellent feedback, and even then, if the amount is non-trivial, I'm only interested if I can inspect in person prior to bidding, and collect in person if I win.

Which limits eBay's usefulness to me quite a lot .... to close to zero.

A barrister friend told me, >30 years ago, when buying a horse privately, walk round it first and check there's a leg on each corner, because you won't .... ahem .... have a leg to stand on afterwards, if there isn't.

And that's still, my distinctly sceptical approach.

eBay is, to me, the Russian Roulette of buying and selling. Or, a nice walk on a lovely ocean-side sandy beach that's been mined. It offers great potential, lovely views, but also might blow up in your face.

My golden rule .... if you deal on eBay, buying or selling, be prepared to step on a few mines.

The issue is not ebay, the world at large is full of cheats. Hence, ebay is the same.

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Originally Posted by abaxas

The issue is not ebay, the world at large is full of cheats. Hence, ebay is the same.

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I saw a poster once - I won't say where - which said "Nick it, fence it, eBay it" which seems reasonably accurate.

At one end of the scale it is little better than a car boot sale. It really is a case of "Let the buyer beware" as it seems to attract some ... dubious... characters.

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Originally Posted by peterb

And its attitudes like that that make me very wary of buying off Ebay.

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Don't get me wrong Pete. If it's a genuine buyer with a genuine issue, sellers should help them out. But, in my 10 years of trading on eBay, just in the last year, there have been a sharp rise in buyer fraud.
Saying item is faulty and not returning it but ebay refunding them in full, sending an entirely different item ( e.g. send a book instead of sending back a laptop ) with Tracking info and then ebay refunding the buyer in full , sending a gfx card back and keeping all the heatsinks are just some of the nuisances I have had to deal with just in 2014. I even had a buyer telling me - you clearly don't know how ebay works, I am going to complain and watch how easily ebay refund me!

If a buyer takes up arms against me, I won't sit by idly. I will declare war as well!
And ebay created the battlefield by not letting sellers leave -ve feedback.

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Originally Posted by OilSheikh

Don't get me wrong Pete. If it's a genuine buyer with a genuine issue, sellers should help them out. But, in my 10 years of trading on eBay, just in the last year, there have been a sharp rise in buyer fraud.
Saying item is faulty and not returning it but ebay refunding them in full, sending an entirely different item ( e.g. send a book instead of sending back a laptop ) with Tracking info and then ebay refunding the buyer in full , sending a gfx card back and keeping all the heatsinks are just some of the nuisances I have had to deal with just in 2014. I even had a buyer telling me - you clearly don't know how ebay works, I am going to complain and watch how easily ebay refund me!

If a buyer takes up arms against me, I won't sit by idly. I will declare war as well!
And ebay created the battlefield by not letting sellers leave -ve feedback.

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Fair enough, there are some unscrupulous buyers - and not permitting se;llers to leave negative feedback is ridiculous, but I guess while e bay are making money from seller fees, it isn'yt going to change. They seem to be more concerned with the registered business sellers rather than the private sellers running it as a sideline business though.

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Originally Posted by OilSheikh

I even had a buyer telling me - you clearly don't know how ebay works, I am going to complain and watch how easily ebay refund me!

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Which is why you must ensure all communications are via ebay.

Although, based on how ebay treat sellers these days, i doubt it would matter.

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Originally Posted by peterb

Fair enough, there are some unscrupulous buyers - and not permitting se;llers to leave negative feedback is ridiculous

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Which all came about because buyers kept getting scammed by sellers, now that the rules favour buyers, theyre all scamming sellers instead.

No doubt the scamming buyers are exactly the same people who were fake sellers before.

Righty O! what an update i have on this....

So to cut it short alot of message's went back and forth between me and the buyer, it became clear she wanted to keep the laptop but also wanted a refund...which she for some reasons made clear in an email to me via a pm instead of through the case on ebay.

So with this in mind i asked why and she said she felt i could not refund her, odd excuse but meh!

Now i along with all my proof went to ebay who decided in her favour. not good even after i explained and provided the proof needed, ebay says that is the system and that i needed to get the laptop back to check it then escalate it further.

Okay i felt stuck i couldn't do anything but then....

The buyer only had 10 days to respond with a tracking number and to get the laptop back to me...got an email today :)

Ebay has now offically closed the case in my favour due to no response from the buyer! i checked her ebay and she has been using it as i saw she left feedback for others for items she has bought between these 10 days.

So to conclude? ALWAYS fight a buyer if you feel they are trying to call your bluff! had i had caved i'd be down money but as i didn't this scammer has now been reported to ebay and hasn't got a free laptop.

Feeling very good right now :)

Nice result, a win by default.

Really pleased to hear you've had a positive outcome from this case! eBay is certainly going down the pan with regards to people trying to get working equipment for free by claiming it doesn't work and asking for the refund. It's nice to hear of a sensible resolution to this. It's what makes me wary of selling such things online generally.

Congrats mate. Glad to hear the scammers didn't profit.

Excellent. Well done, very pleased for you.

Now, open another ebay account and buy anything the buyer sells and give them the same treatment but first leave them negative feedback.

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Originally Posted by OilSheikh

Now, open another ebay account and buy anything the buyer sells and give them the same treatment but first leave them negative feedback.

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Or maybe don't, and realise that 2 wrongs don't make a right and all that?

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Originally Posted by Splash

Or maybe don't, and realise that 2 wrongs don't make a right and all that?

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Yeah, I agree with this. Just let it go and move on, don't dwell on it, winning the case is all the revenge you need.

To be fair i wouldn't waste my time doing it, i mean if i had the time...and spare cash....maybe, but as it stand's apart from a few days being abit pissed im happy with the outcome and so i will leave it as it is.

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Originally Posted by razer121

Righty O! what an update i have on this....

So to cut it short alot of message's went back and forth between me and the buyer, it became clear she wanted to keep the laptop but also wanted a refund...which she for some reasons made clear in an email to me via a pm instead of through the case on ebay.

So with this in mind i asked why and she said she felt i could not refund her, odd excuse but meh!

Now i along with all my proof went to ebay who decided in her favour. not good even after i explained and provided the proof needed, ebay says that is the system and that i needed to get the laptop back to check it then escalate it further.

Okay i felt stuck i couldn't do anything but then....

The buyer only had 10 days to respond with a tracking number and to get the laptop back to me...got an email today :)

Ebay has now offically closed the case in my favour due to no response from the buyer! i checked her ebay and she has been using it as i saw she left feedback for others for items she has bought between these 10 days.

So to conclude? ALWAYS fight a buyer if you feel they are trying to call your bluff! had i had caved i'd be down money but as i didn't this scammer has now been reported to ebay and hasn't got a free laptop.

Feeling very good right now :)

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Wow she was taking the pee. "I've been using the laptop want to keep it but you should give me a refund" .... I've only ever sold one thing on ebay (thankfully was fine) but just reading this irks me. More of a joke that after you factor in paypal and ebay fees you lose 14% give or take + cost of postage to send to the buyer. Be lucky to even break even with certain things.

Indeed mate, i lost a fair amount just by selling it on there o.O but either way a mistake i wont be making again as my ebay days are over!

I have found in past that eBay always side with the buyer, no matter what seller loses out....