Well I think most older people would say:- we are richer now but the quality of life in "old UK was better".
Whether all older people say this in Europe (or around the world) for hundreds of years can be a point...but there could be some truth in it for many countries and periods of history. Also interesting would be to compare serious crimes e.g. homicides say before 1965 to present day.
2nd computer gigabyte P965ds3p, 7770 E2140@2.9ghz, corsair HX520 6 years stable, replaced now with E8400@3.9ghz and will overclock more when I'm bored.
we have enjoyed a period of sustained peace and prosperity that is quite unprecedented. Few generations have been so lucky in this regard to not know war on their doorstep.
Nothing you say will change the facts. I have seen degradation in the quality of my life from this uncontrolled East European immigration. I am even considering emigrating to elsewhere.Originally Posted by Splash
The British govt. is definitely the stupidest in the world to allow such uncontrolled immigration, giving asylum to any economic migrant and not able to do anything about the hundreds of illegals among us.
You do realise we have pretty strict border control don't you, we're an island, it makes controlling our borders relatively easy compared to Italy / Spain / Greece.
While I'm mostly for stricter border control, compared to others we already do a pretty good job. We have free movement of people who are EU citizens, that is all. It's not like we allow anyone in the world to come here no questions asked.
I'd say it depends on context. At one level it means of white, Christian background. Though, these days, less and less of either.What Does It Mean To Be European?
At another level, it means born in a country that is part of the European continent.
So, you could comply with either or both of those and be considered (or consider yourself) "European", but you could also comply with one or both of those and not consider yourself European. But that's using geography and genetics as the determinant.
You could also be genetically African, or Oriental, and be born outside of the European continent, but be raised and educated in Europe, fully immersed in European ways, culturally European, legally European, but with a non-European genetic background and birthplace.
Then there's politics. Are we talking about the continent of Europe, the citizens of member states of the European Union, or even the citizens of states that are geographically part of Europe (or partially part of Europe) but not part of the EU.
And finally, are we talking about how we regard ourselves, or how we might be impartially regarded by objective third parties? And, at what point in time.
For instance, I used to regard myself as British but I no longer do, largely due to the more vociferous (and arguably, obnoxious) end of Scots nationalism. Now, I'm English, and THAT is how I describe myself on official forms that ask for nationality, like census, passport or visa forms, etc.
Legally, I guess I'm European in that I'm a citizen/subject of an EU state, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not part of a political club I have never been asked about, and have no respect or affection for. So, by the way, I think I understand the ScotNat perspective on a "UK" government, which is why my view on Scottish independence is that it's for the Scottish people to decide .... though I thought that's what that referendum was about.
But MY perspective on the EU is that I certainly don't regard that as making me European.
So, as I said at the start, it depends on context .... and definitions.
So, you're going to help solve your own issue with immigration in the UK by becoming an immigrant yourself? Excellent. Do you expect the locals in your chosen country to show the same amount of understanding as you might show them? Will they blame you for taking their jobs and homes and contributing to over-population? I can always hope.
Also, I very much enjoyed your first post where you suggested that all Eastern Europeans were racists. How very un-racist of you. Is it comedy hour?
We had East Europeans here before and I respected them as there weren't many and they didn't cause troubles.
Apologies OP for disgressing.
Last edited by OilSheikh; 17-07-2015 at 12:55 PM.
I think as a race we're all pre-disposed to certain labels, be it in buying CDs from the "rock" section or how we class ourselves in a global community.
Depending on circumstances, I might well be considered Scottish, English, British, Western European, European, Infidel...
As with many other situations, you end up having terms that can be range from geographical (Europe) to political/economic (EU). People will talk about Europe when they in fact are referring to the European Union, i.e. one is a recognised continent which has been around far longer than our shifting definitions.
If the EU dissolved tomorrow, I'd still be living on a European island, but technically not part of mainland Europe. We are of course linked by the channel tunnel which maintains a form of physical connection whichever way you look at it.
The argument can be had within the UK too. If the break-up of the United Kingdom were to come about, it would not of course mean the break-up of the British Isles, unless there are some considerable terra-forming plans I've missed along the way. I can't help but see our own little definitions as a hindrance as often as they are useful. It's like trying decide which club you're in.
I R GLOBAL CITIZEN!
(Or a pasty white keyboard warrior. Whatevs!)
For starters, it tells me you probably talk funny and have a much better experience of chip shops than anything you'll actually find around my area...
Easi - The møøse is majestik. The elk is nøt.
A møøse ønce bit my sister. Møøse bites kan be pretti nasti...
Who you callin' 'Old'?
The UK doesn't just let anyone. Fact. If you are a citizen of a current member state of the EU you are allowed to move unmolested from state to state as you please. Last time I saw there was over 1 million Brits living in Spain. A majority of whom were retired so we benefit from this agreement just as much, if not more so! Several studies have also pointed to a net financial benefit from immigration, including eastern Europeans.
Possibly my favourite part of the EU is the open borders. Because, and you may wish to avert your eyes in case it scares you, we're all human being. Even the eastern Europeans! And to quote a song I like, "borders are just lines drawn in the sand with a stick". And the ability to easily share cultures just fills me with joy.
Steam - ReapedYou - Feel free to add me!!
IIRC we still pay their pension. And benefits. Even though they live abroad. I thought that was one of the things the government was looking into whether it could end under the last parliament. Not sure whether it went anywhere.
After two world wars that left most of Europe bankrupt it's no wonder they don't want to repeat that again.Just some thoughts/questions:
Every 'European' already has, is born with, a nationality. What does it mean for that person, if anything, to also be 'European'?
If one had choose between belonging to 'Europe' or belonging to one's natural country of citizenship, why might a person choose one over the other?
Is there any historical precedent for a project like the creating a unified Europe?
What is the need for the creation of 'Europe'?
How might one measure the success of the European project? Or, is there a way to know if/when the project has failed and needs to be scrapped or redesigned?
What is/was the purpose of admitting smaller, economically weak nations into EMU?
What's the best European holiday destination?
I see it like UK is a region of a larger Europe. We can move anywhere within it freely should we choose, source finance, insurance and many other products. We can also tackle some of the bigger areas such as domestic security, defence, financial sector, which are becoming cumbersome on your own.
If Europe avoids anymore wars amongst the bigger countries it will be a success.
^ This.
Last time I worked for the DWP, we did indeed pay a surprising amount to overseas, ex-pat types. I do believe certain groups, such as Gurkhas, now also get the same benefits, at least...
Yep - One of those is that we get to hire cheaper doctors and nurses and save money, because those UK citizens already studying over here are too expensive to employ. This being a recruitment policy actually enforced on an NHS consultant I once knew.
Speaking as someone whose locality has, in recent years, become frequently subject to.... how would you say... 'Eastern Europeans of a transient nature with no concept of property ownership' - I don't really care for those forcibly "sharing their culture" with me. I'd rather they naff-off and stop nicking my stuff, rather than guilt-tripping the local council into taking land off owners to provide for such folk, at the expense of my taxes.
Speaking also as someone who occasionally has to clean their burned-to-death corpses off the country's infrastructure, following their failed attempts to steal copper wire from the insanely high-voltage assets - Ditto!!
Speaking as someone who helped teach English to an Iranian housemate, who came here to take the conversion exams (because the UK didn't recognise/understand his existing doctorate) and then successfully re-became a qualified electricial engineer - I'd rather share the cultures of people like that... especially as these ones seem to come to us smiling, with pockets full of saffron and big servings of rice!
you sure it was saffron and not yellow cake? (just kidding)
I was driving past Eastham police station last week ( Grew up in Eastham ) . I was heartbroken to find out that it has now been closed down along with many other Police stations in London. This morning, I learned that several courts will also be shut. sigh!
Trust me, I appreciate this. I live in the north east and my other halfs parents live in a beautiful semi-rural area. Truly lovely. They've grafted very hard for everything they have and they back onto an open plain that is mostly a bird sanctuary. A couple years ago a bunch of the people you're referring to 'planted' themselves on this field. And I kid you not, the only reason they were told to sling it with any speed was because of the birds, not the hard working people who lived there.
Completely disgraceful. No respect for anything and no concept of contributing to the local community. And no, tying a horse up to eat grass and call it cutting grass does not count.
In addition to this, I used to work as a window/carpet cleaner. And one time we got a priority job in Appleby in June. Eye opening. Kind of wish I was trained to clean bodily fluids.
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