The current situation in the UK with folk making a run to get in to the UK.
If you had the same power as Mr. Cameron, how would you apply a solution?
I think a stern stance needs to be applied and an example made. These people are not seeking asylum, or perhaps they are but that's not the reason they are trying to get into Britain. These are mostly migrants from north Africa and the Middle East so how many EU nations and have these people travelled through to get here that abide by the EXACT same EU dictated asylum seeking rules?
I struggle to not have a very cynical opinion about the reason they've chosen the UK over the rest of the EU.
So my plan would be to go in mob handed, police or army, but probably army as it would appear more aggressive. Detain everyone that ever arrives, question there reasons for attempting to get to the UK, if it's asylum seeking then they should be made to apply for asylum in France, as it has the exact same process as us. If they don't provide a suitable reason and are not going to apply for asylum in France, well, it's for the French government to deport this illegal immigrants.
I'd imagine that the people would take a detachment of 200 soldiers from the UK and the same again from the French as a much more serious showing than a handful or riot cops.
Happy to debate my views of this.
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ik9000 (31-07-2015)
UK is something like fifth on the list of the number of asylum seekers taken in. I believe we are already behind France.
Not all migrants want to come here. Language seems to be the main driving force for those that do.
Army with instruction to shoot to kill if they pass whatever line they decide to paint. A few deaths and they will soon stop. As far as I am concerned they are breeding to use small children and babies as leverage to get in.
Also sink the bloody boats.
Only way to stop it is if they know they stand a good chance in getting killed by trying to gain illegal entry.
And leave the Euro.
Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack
off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
Dammit Gonzo, get off the fence and tell us what you really think!
Clearly the French have lost control. They should give it back to us, so we can maintain discipline. Afterall they don't have any motivation to prevent the migrants. If anything, the oppositre is true.
Society's to blame,
Or possibly Atari.
deploy the army and send them back to closest north African country.
its easy to take the extreme stance. The liberal in me (there is some in there somewhere so I gather) would point out that a lot of the reason they are heading here is trying to get out of the S***hole BS country they come from. If I was in Syria/Libya/Boko-Harem territory I'd be getting out of there too. And let's face it, anyone taking the Daily-Mail mindset of "shoot them all" must surely be able to understand why they wold prefer the UK to living with the French
Equally however the pragmatic thing is one has to draw a line before too many try it. And that requires an abrupt strong response. It will be unpopular, and in some ways cruel. But it must then be followed with helping to sort out the mess they are trying to escape from. It is not fair, or right, that some live in relative luxury while others are living cheek-by-jowl in quasi slums where corrupt politicians fail to look after their citizen's best interests. And adding more people to Tower Hamlets will do nothing to help that situation.
sammyc (31-07-2015)
China is currently creating man-made islands in the south china sea. Why don't we do something similar in the south atlantic?
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Galant (31-07-2015)
That's going to be hard. Seeing as we aren't in it.
Assuming you mean EU, well yeah, but this wouldn't be why, or at least no more than a very small part of why. But that's a whole different thread.
Not really the point, though, since that assumes ANY of those countries should be taking illegal immigrants at all, and that further, there's some "fair" amount.
The problem is that thee's two main issues :-
1) What SHOULD be done?
2) What CAN be done?
And the first one is pretty easy.
Illegal immigrants have NO right to remain in any EU country. Asylum seekers do, but illegal immigrants don't. We need to draw that distinction. So deport them back to where they came from .... which raises a couple of problems in category 2).
As for asylum seekers, under the Dublin convention, they need to apply for it, and be processed in the first SAFE country they arrive in. So unless they can demonstrate why France, or for that matter, Italy, Greece, Hungary, whatever their route is, aren't "safe" the UK has no obligation.
So what SHOULD happen is that :-
a) France stops them getting into France in the first place, or
b) failing that, deports them unless they make an asylum claim, in which case ....
c) France processes that, and either deports them, or grants asylum, depending on the individual's circumstances
In other words, they're in France, not the UK. It is therefore France's problem, and the ONLY reason it's becoming a UK problem is because France is either failing to, or refusing to, handle it. And it is therefore hard to see how that isn't deliberate, on tne basis that the successful ones cease being France's problem and become a UK problem. It is in France's interests to winge and cry, wringing their hands over it and doing as little as possible, while all the time, waiting for as many as lossible to succeed. France could, easily, round up these immigrants and ship them back to, for instance, camps at the frequent points of entry INTO France. It just won't.
What would I do if I were PM?
Well, initially, 'frank' negotiations with France, offering assistance, and at least some political cover, for a firmer hand by the French state. And note, this is a problem for Paris, and dumping it on the people or local government of Calais is no more fair than the Calais mayor's protestations that it's a UK problem.
If that doesn't have results, threaten to close the Chunnel. And if that doesn't work, close it. If need be, permanently. It is the relative ease of access to lorries, cars, etc that is the draw for the Calais immigrants.
On a domestic front, make it far, FAR harder to get jobs, accommodation, schooling, even non-emergency health care, etc, without proof of entitlement and come down extremely hard, to the extent of prison and VERY heavy fines to the extent of bankrupting both companies and individuals, that wilfully and persistently employ or otherwise support/service illegals.
The reason these illegals want to come here (and a lot don't, by the way, preferring Germany, Scandinavia, etc, but we're talking about those in or heading for Calais, Dunkirk, etc) is the perception of an easy time here. We have to destroy that perception to destroy the draw factor. Gonzo's method might be a tad extreme, but the principle is the same.
To be honest, I'm expecting the notion of a national ID card, and almost certainly a biometric one at that, to be back on the table before long.
To be honest, one of the main drivers for the illegal immigrants to come to the UK is the fact that there is a thriving underworld of illegal work in this country and many believe probably not incorrectly(many have friends and family already here) they can make a fair amount of cash before they get discovered and detained/deported, if they ever are.
I don't buy the argument that language is the primary driver, since anyone can learn another language such as French, German, Italian if the incentive is there, which it is. An awful lot of the these "migrants" don't speak English anyway and BBC News home in on the handful that can and this gives a distorted perspective on the calibre of them. There are reports the "migrants" have seriously assaulted the lorry drivers that are trying to get them out the back of their vehicles.
There should be a British consulate in Calais, then efforts to process only legitimate asylum seekers.. but even this might be a compromise too far since asylum seekers can just apply for asylum in the European countries which they arrived in. The fact the welfare system is more generous in this country than France and Italy is a major driving factor in my opinion.
Cameron can posture and huff and puff all he likes, but no one can avoid the reality his attempts to deal with situation are woeful and pathetic. I think my Dad and couple of his friends in business could organise sniffer dogs and fencing!! They need to send in the Army and Coast guard to now to the control the situation.
These problems are now affecting other ports in Europe and UK such as Cherbourg etc. In the UK "migrants" are now being found in the HumberPort network and some are being picked up in East Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire and Lincolnshire just walking along the roads.
The bottom line is, there is something awfully wrong with way the UK is dealing with this crisis both logistically and policy wise. Cameron just comes across as impotent and feckless.
A heightened Police presence has already more than halved the number of attempts made to pass through the fencing and barricades that already exist, so in my opinion that's the way to go. Call in extra officers to support the operations going on in Kent and Calais, reinforce the existing physical security measures and have French and British authorities start interviewing these people about seeking asylum on either/neither side of the channel. I would also focus on getting the unaccompanied children that have already slipped through the net back to their families.
Hitching up our skirts, closing our borders and sending the armed forces in to deal with civillians isn't the way to go in my opinion. For starters, as I said during the London riots a few years ago, using the armed forces against civillians is simply something I do not want to see. The thought of having soldiers patrolling Kent/Calais amongst the general public with rules of engagement and live ammunition is a very sobering one. Issue a shoot to kill order on three thousand unarmed civillians for instance and I dread to think of the consequences, not just for anyone caught in the crossfire but because of the potential for civil unrest and the burden it would place on the conscience of a nation. It certainly isn't an image of my country that I want broadcast on CNN for the world to see.
There's also the matter of justifying that use of force, which at the moment we simply cannot. Not using anything other than fear, self entitlement and xenophobia as our reasoning anyway. It's definitely not an act of self defence by any definition. Personally I think it's time we started trying to solve the problem instead of penning it in and hoping it solves itself or threatening to shoot at it.
since they have built the fence and increase the police they have had more than 5000 attempts to break through this week alone - the fence has been cut , repaired then cut again - , so its not working as well as you think.
so what is your solution? mine is send in the army israelie style and clear out the camp
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