Should prisoners be taught programming?

[Singh400]

We all get the opportunity in this country. Given how many muck around in our schools (and before you go there, I have several family teaching around the country) and dismiss that opportunity, why should we pay twice because feckless idiots throw it back in our faces?

Yes, everyone gets an opportinuity. But people develop at different ages. Case in point, Shakespeare was shoved down our throats in secondary school. At that age, I couldn't care less about it. It was only well into my 20s that I grew a natural interest in Shakespeare. The current education system punishes those who don't develop in a certain age range. And I'm not talking about "slow" kids, I'm talking about the entire schooling population. Girls for instance do better in English, whereas boys do better in Sciences. It's vitally important to remember that not everyone develops and matures in the same age range.

Sadly this is true. But there ought to be punishment too. As I have said before (in other threads) there ought to be a two-stage process. Punishment, of a fixed term, no reductions, extended for bad behaviour. Once completed they move to a rehab unit for a fixed period too, learning skills etc. Towards the end this goes into partial release, then tagging - before full time release to the community.

Do you want to pay for the two stage process? Of course you don't, no taxpayer does. That's why rehabilitation and and being imprisoned should go hand in hand.

And lifers don't get resources wasted on rehabilitating someone who will never be let out.

I'm beginning to find your lack of humanity a little alarming. Those lifers are still people, bad people maybe. But they are still people, and I for one would not want to see us go down a route where we consider prisoners as second class human beings. Studies have shown that your best chance at stopping reoffenders, is to give them a chance, train them, teach them, help them better themselves. Not to lock them up and throw away the key.

If you've ever been the victim of crime, or seen a loved one scared to live as a result of one, you will understand the violation it brings, and the need for punishment. Whatever the reason behind it a crime has been committed, and there must be punishment. Otherwise, let's just go each man for himself and see how things turn out. Being put in prison is not punishment enough. They should not be able to sit there on their x-boxes having a cushy life. It ought to be miserable hard labour and lame food etc. The nicer bits can wait for rehab.

Prison is not a cushy life, and the fact you think that shows that you have a very narrow view of this. It should not be hard labour and lame food. Lame food can and does cause health problems, and when they become sick, we have the pay the health costs. I have been a victim of crime, our house was robbed by our paint decorator no less who used to work alongside my mother. We even allowed him to bring his kids over and play with us. Within weeks, he broke in and stole our possessions.

I was livid and wanted them to throw the key away. He was caught, he was sentenced, and is probably out. And he is more than likely still committing crime, the current prison system does very little resolve the true reasons of why people commit crime. All it does it give us the illusion of safety that the bad people are locked away.

[TooNice]

"Former convict's mobile game 'Prison Break' breaks sales record"

[ik9000]

Do you want to pay for the two stage process? Of course you don't,

actually I do. I'm in favour of tax rises. Please don't make assumptions on my behalf. Also, there is not necessarily that much more cost. Only if sentences remain the same and rehab is added on top.

Frankly, in a society of rising crime - were crimes to be properly recorded and investigated rather than closed/not investigated due to lack of police resources - it ought not to surprise people that we need to create more prison space.

no taxpayer does.

Another incorrect sweeping assumption.

I'm beginning to find your lack of humanity a little alarming.

Another incorrect assumption. You perceive I have a lack of humanity. MY comment was that rehabilitative skills are not wasted on those who will never be released. That is practical. Rehabilitation is preparing someone for their release and doing your best to re-integrate them "as a valued and contributing member of society".

Prison is not a cushy life

I'll trust you have actually been in one. Not for all, but it can be nicer than some deserve. Short prison sentences for moderate offences in lower level prisons are surprisingly more comfortable than the average person might assume prison to entail. The separation of punishment from rehabilitation would help redress this balance.

the fact you think that shows that you have a very narrow view of this.

Enough of assuming FACTS on my behalf that are not FACTS - they are your misguided and incorrect presumptions. Read my posts properly.

It should not be hard labour and lame food. Lame food can and does cause health problems

More presumptions on your part. Lame food does not have to mean junk food as you incorrectly leap to in your argument. It is perfectly possible to feed someone a healthy nutrious and balanced diet on bland and dull food. Vegans survive just fine.

I have been a victim of crime, our house was robbed by our paint decorator no less who used to work alongside my mother. We even allowed him to bring his kids over and play with us. Within weeks, he broke in and stole our possessions.

I was livid and wanted them to throw the key away. He was caught, he was sentenced, and is probably out. And he is more than likely still committing crime, the current prison system does very little resolve the true reasons of why people commit crime. All it does it give us the illusion of safety that the bad people are locked away.

And therein you would actually seem to endorse my argument. The current system doesn't work either as deterrent or rehabilitative facility. Ergo we need to try something new. And splitting the penalty from rehab is a good step to doing this IMO.

It has been interesting to read recently both of police forces not investigating burglaries, and prison staff highlighting the need to build new prisons designed for modern age, without the flaws of the current Victorian crop. The whole prison system needs an overhaul - and investment.

[yamangman]

Moral purity is a fairy tale. Nothing personal, but we all have a dark side - it's part of being the human animal...

Well I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not, but I'm sure I'm not the only person upon reading that who just immediately wondered what kind of sordid shenanigans you get up to .

[GuidoLS]

Well I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not, but I'm sure I'm not the only person upon reading that who just immediately wondered what kind of sordid shenanigans you get up to .

I've done many things that others may have, or actually did, find morally lacking. Some of those things may well have been illegal, either in that particular jurisdiction, or most certainly another. Drunk and disorderly, to the point of stupid fighting (if you're seriously staggeringly drunk, and get into a fight, you're not only stupid, but hilarious to watch at the same time). Premarital conjugal relations... which is STILL illegal in more than a couple states here in the US. When I was younger (much younger), I used a relatives car, multiple times, not only without permission, but also without a license. I've trespassed on the property of others, including government owned facilities. I've partaken of recreational, mind altering substances, and unlike Bill Clinton, I most certainly did inhale.

And while none of those things may be truly evil acts, and while (except for what's essentially grand theft auto) some may not really consider any of the above to be crimes, per se, each and every one of them can and have gotten people thrown in jail (d&d) or prison. All will give you a record. And all can screw up your life later on. The difference between me and far too many others? I never got caught. And I've never met anyone that hasn't done at least one of the things I've just confessed to. Ever.

[ik9000]

I've done many things that others may have, or actually did, find morally lacking. Some of those things may well have been illegal, either in that particular jurisdiction, or most certainly another. Drunk and disorderly, to the point of stupid fighting (if you're seriously staggeringly drunk, and get into a fight, you're not only stupid, but hilarious to watch at the same time). Premarital conjugal relations... which is STILL illegal in more than a couple states here in the US. When I was younger (much younger), I used a relatives car, multiple times, not only without permission, but also without a license. I've trespassed on the property of others, including government owned facilities. I've partaken of recreational, mind altering substances, and unlike Bill Clinton, I most certainly did inhale.

And while none of those things may be truly evil acts, and while (except for what's essentially grand theft auto) some may not really consider any of the above to be crimes, per se, each and every one of them can and have gotten people thrown in jail (d&d) or prison. All will give you a record. And all can screw up your life later on. The difference between me and far too many others? I never got caught. And I've never met anyone that hasn't done at least one of the things I've just confessed to. Ever.

You must move in an interesting group of people if you've never met anyone who hasn't done any of the above. I can point to many folk I know who wouldn't be guilty of any of those.

[GuidoLS]

You must move in an interesting group of people if you've never met anyone who hasn't done any of the above. I can point to many folk I know who wouldn't be guilty of any of those.

Nope. Can't think of anyone I know that hasn't done at least one of them. I'm having a very hard time deciding if I know anyone that didn't have sex before getting married. I'm leaning very hard in the no direction, although I am excluding the one girl/woman I know that became a nun. I do know she smoked a little weed once or twice or a few dozen times, and downed a couple of beers while underaged. And I can't think of a single person I know that hasn't cut across a neighbors yard, which, while it doesn't rate up there with capital murder, is trespassing. In another thread, some are calling for nuking trespassers. I've yet to decide if they're serious or not, but I tend to take the ones that are calling for shooting them as being serious, as we have people with the same mindset here. I'll admit I don't know a lot of car thieves, and I don't recommend it, but people do stupid things when they're 14 and 15. And I know very few people that have not either toked up at least once or twice, or dropped a pain pill that wasn't theirs...

If you can point to people that aren't 'guilty' of any of the lesser things here, than you must live in some sort of ultra-conservative's Utopia, because I really don't believe that anyone that pure exists. Not even remotely close.

[angelashaw]

People deserve a second chance, the biggest reason for re-offending is people not having the skills to get a job and this will open opportunities for ex-offenders to be an asset to the community.

[Daheelah]

Then there is the case of the Programmer who for some reason wound up in prison!