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Thread: Backups.....

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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Backups.....

    Hi All,

    Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I can't see anywhere more appropriate. I've recently taken the plunge and bought a ScanSnap ix500 which is an amazing bit of kit allowing me to rapidly convert a bunch of old documents from paper to electronic copies. I am in the process of shredding the originals, but I need to ensure that the electronic copies are bullet proof safe as some of them would be impossible to get hold of (although the chances I would need them are very low).

    I currently backup my iMac to a TimeMachine instance on my RAID-5 (soon to be RAID-6) NAS, but I want a 'proper' backup. How are all you Hexites doing backups? You are doing backups right?

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Backups.....

    Quote Originally Posted by b0redom View Post
    but I need to ensure that the electronic copies are bullet proof safe as some of them would be impossible to get hold of (although the chances I would need them are very low).
    Sounds like you should print a hard copy and store that somewhere safe

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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Re: Backups.....

    Actually I probably need 2 hard copies, one for backup, one for a remote site....

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    Re: Backups.....

    You open a minefield there.

    I suggest thinking about the different types of data you have, and developing a multi-layer strategy for different types. A couple of the factors to consider are how damaging it would be if you lost certain data, AND how long you want it "archived" for?

    Also, retrieval of "that" document when you want it. That implies either a very carefully thought-out structure and a bit of donkey-work to find a given document, or some kind of database document-storage system. Which to go for depends on volume of documents, and to a degree, budget.

    I do something similar to what you appear to be planning, and have developed my own little plan that suits me. It starts with separating data into different types, such as day-to-day stuff which I "back up", and stuff I'm rarely going to want but might REALLY want if the need arises. The latter includes original 'from camera" photos, me being a keen photographer, and some business documents that I might need, years later, either for legal or tax reasons. On that latter front, be a bit cautious (if you're doing businsss documents) of what the taxman will accept electronic copies of, and what they ONLY accept originals of. Last time I checked, HMRC required originals, and for up to 7 years. I deal with that by imaging and archiving in yearly "slugs", but keeping paper originals in (tax year) annual files. After 10 years (7 for HMRC + plus a 3-year safety margin), I dump a year's files. So if I REALLY need to, I can dig out a paper original of any invoice, contract, bank statement, etc, for 10 years.

    Once you've got your head around the organisational bit, with both what AND WHY you want certain items kept this way or that, I break it down into where I store it, and my backup and archiving systems are based on that.

    For instance, on my "main" machine, I can access any reasonably current or transient data. It might be physically on that machine, or on a server. Either way, it "syncs" automatically to a separate machine or, at a minimum, to a separate drive (for less important stuff). Archive material is on a separate system, air-gapped for security.

    Both are currently backed up to tape. In one case, DAT4, and the other, SLR tape. Having both doesn't make much sense for anyone else, but as the hardware was expensive and I had both for historic reasons, I still use it.

    BUT .... I don't entirely trust tape, either, not least as you never really know if a backup will work until you try to restore it. Hence, grandfather-father-son backups, which at least limits potential loss.

    With that in mind, tape is not, IMHO, the medium for long-term archival storage. Optical is probably better, but bear in mind that the dye bases for both CD-R and DVD-R put at best a large questionmark over durability over long periods of time. That implies, at a minimum, careful physical storage and in a dark place. Like a fireproof safe. And, of course, off-site copies.

    Personally, again for historic reasons, I have numerous bits of what was (in it's day) pretty expensive optical hardware and media, from several different sizes of magneto-optical drives, to PD drives and, for several reasons, my personal favourite, DVD-RAM

    Because my personal system uses such an eclectic collection of hardware, I can't suggest it to you directly. What I would suggest is that if you have ideas of storing stuff for the long-term, as I do, I don't advise relying on disks, tape or any dye-based optical media. Much better are non-dye media like MO or phase change. I've been using all, but especially DVD-RAM for many, many years and have yet to have a media failure.

    I have, however, had hardware crap out on me. Which suggests that for the long term, you need :-

    - media with high durability
    - multiple copies of ALL disks (copy twice or three times, not just once)
    - adequate supplies of reserve hardware, to be sure you have hardware to read the media
    - a hardware base with the right interfaces available (quite a bit of my kit is SCSI, so I have reserve SCSI interface boards, and "spare" PCs I know they work in.
    - be prepared to transfer all your old "archive" material to new hardware as it becomes to available to avoid issues with redundant formats.

    Most important, in my view, is to get clear in your mind the difference between "backup" and "archive", while being aware of the overlap between them. It all stems from the nature of the data you are storing, how important it is, how long you want/need to store it for, and how much time you're prepared to put into storing and structuring, which in large part depends on how quickly you want to be able to locate and retrieve a given document or file(s).

    Have fun with the can of worms you've opened.

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    Re: Backups.....

    Local backup (NAS with snapshots), and back up to cloud - Backblaze, Amazon, Carbonite, Crashplan etc.

    The solution must consider the possibilities:

    - Cryptolocker style ransomware encrypting everything on your network, including unmapped drives and a connected NAS (https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewt...?f=108&t=88770)
    - Someone breaking in to your house and stealing everything. Does it need to be encrypted?
    - Restore time - possibly limited to the speed of your Internet connect, but possibly the remote servers might be the bottleneck.
    - Try to reduce the chance of needing to restore from remote backups in the first place. RAID on your NAS, snapshots turned on, use OS software restriction policies, keep your browser, Flash and Reader etc up-to-date (or uninstall them!), use NoScript and an adblocker, etc.
    Last edited by smargh; 08-05-2016 at 12:33 PM.

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    Re: Backups.....

    Quote Originally Posted by smargh View Post
    Local backup (NAS with snapshots), and back up to cloud - Backblaze, Amazon, Carbonite, Crashplan etc.

    The solution must consider the possibilities:

    - Cryptolocker style ransomware encrypting everything on your network, including unmapped drives and a connected NAS (https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewt...?f=108&t=88770)
    - Someone breaking in to your house and stealing everything. Does it need to be encrypted?
    - Restore time - possibly limited to the speed of your Internet connect, but possibly the remote servers might be the bottleneck.
    - Try to reduce the chance of needing to restore from remote backups in the first place. RAID on your NAS, snapshots turned on, use OS software restriction policies, keep your browser, Flash and Reader etc up-to-date (or uninstall them!), use NoScript and an adblocker, etc.
    Agreed. Follow the 3-2-1 rule. 3 Copies of your data (live, NAS with snapshots, cloud) 2 different media (HDD and cloud. Yes cloud counts as different media) and keep 1 copy off site (cloud)
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Re: Backups.....

    @saracen, do you have a list of what HMRC will accept electronic copies of vs hard copies please?

    Ta...

    b0redom

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    Re: Backups.....

    Sorry, but not an up-to-date one.

    That's partly why I digitise everything but keep the originals for about 10 years, in one-year chunks.

    I have a list somewhere, but it's years old. It's even possible that, given the ever-increasing digitisation of government services, including tax returns, that they don't require originals any more, especially given that e-invoicing and bank e-statements are increasingly common.

    I just figured .... better safe than sorry. So rather than try to kerp up with changing regs, I keep everything until well past when it might be needed.

    I have to say, SO FAR, even HMRC audits have not insisted on paper originals. I've had two in, oh, about 20 years, and both times I've sat them down with digital records, scans of invoices, bank statements, etc, and told them I will dig out paper originals of anything they want, and they've yet to take me up on that. Maybe they're just reading body language and believe (correctly) that I can and will do just that. The only originals they wanted was, ironically, my printed copies of the previous year's invoices (mine to customers), which they then "borrowed" and it took me months to get back.

    If you want to be sure, best ask HMRC I'm afraid.

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    jim
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    Re: Backups.....

    I think the last posts have been pretty on-point. The only thing I would add is that from my perspective, encryption is critical when it comes to cloud, and just as important is who holds the key.

    It's all well and good having an encrypted cloud service, but if the supplier are holding the password (i.e. as part of your login details), I would be concerned. Question is, if they get a government warrant, can they hand over your data? If they can, then I'd suggest it isn't safe from hackers either.

    Another option would be to use a cloud solution of any calibre, but ensure that the files are encrypted with a key only you know before leaving your machine.

    Unless you're going to set up a remote server at another property, I think cloud is the safest option - but I wouldn't let security lapse in order to achieve it.

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    Re: Backups.....

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    Agreed. Follow the 3-2-1 rule.

    I have a different version


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    1 person in IT who dies if the back up fails.


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    Re: Backups.....

    I use crashplan locally to a HDD encrypted, crashplan in the cloud with versioning and an unencrypted backup disconnected from the PC for quicker backups when required. Offsite back up on blu ray also for all the important stuff.

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    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
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    Re: Backups.....

    So, in the end I went with, TimeMachine to my NAS box, clone to a local disk, cloning probably once a week or so, and sync to dropbox. I realise that a lot of people are paranoid about pushing stuff out to the Internet, but I guess it's a numbers game, and given that I email tax documents back and forward to my accountant I guess anyone who REALLY wants to compromise my stuff can get it that way.....

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