Almost There! Hexus EU Referendum Straw Poll #2

[Galant]

Same poll two and bit months removed.

Didn't include 'change' options, figured it was better to keep it simple and the same as before. Feel free to comment, of course, if you've changed your position.

Shout out to Stringent for the suggestion of a second poll to see what might have changed.

Anonymous straw poll on the Brexit Referendum.

PLEASE READ

Since some here might not be eligible to vote I've added two parts - Eligible and Ineligible - so that interest can be gauged among those who can't vote - too young etc.

IN - Means you would rather Britain remains IN the EU. It's a vote to remain in the EU.

OUT - Means you would rather Britain left the EU. It's a vote to get out of the EU.

Undecided - Means you're not sure how you'll vote to the extent that you couldn't pick either way right now.

[Jowsey]

My 2 cents.

Opinion hasn't changed, though, if anything, I now hate politicians a little more (didn't know that was possible...)?

[rob4001]

#freegreece

Anyway i'm out EU want TTIP to go through which is corporate friendly and design to 'break up public service monopolies' eg the NHS no its not any safer in tory hands but you can kick them out in 3 years...the EU this is our only chance

[Saracen]

My 2p.

I've long been very sceptical about both the structures, administration and long-term objectives of the EU BUT .... I take actually voting in a refefendum seriously. So, I've deliberately held back from deciding.

I admit I come from "inclined out" perspective, but I wanted to see what positive case could be made for remain.

What I'm hearing from the Remain campaign, however, is FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Granted, Leave have had some stupid moments too, and whoever the king-sized read end that decided to headline that £350m figure was most definitely deserves a firm steel-toecapped workboot up the plughole because it's so self-evidently misleading that it damaged even my trust in everything else. Had they made that argument, but usjng a net contribution figure, it wuld have had far more impact than blatantly sexing it up. But then, the way the king-sized rear-ends at #10 and #11 presenged the "forecasts" as if they were sermons carved in stone on Mount Ararat from God himself/herself was truly disgraceful.

Anyway, back to my point .... nothing I have heard ftom Remain goes beyond ....

- there's loads wrong with the EU,
- it's cold out there, and we're "frit" of it
- we have to be in the EU to reform it.

Well, that presupposes that :-

- the EU is reformable at all
- that the other members want the same reforms we do.

I see zero evidence, even in Cameron's conjuring trick "renegotiation" of any inclination whatever of the EU to reform. There's great dissatisfaction with the EU among the peoples of member states, but beggar-all in the EU elites, for whom "reform" means go further, faster.

Sure, leaving means taking some risks, but so does Remaining, and I've yet to see a single positive argument for our continued membership.

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but my mind now is made up.

Leave.

[rob4001]

Jean-Claude Juncker EU President

On French referendum over EU constitution
“If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’,”

[flearider]

what i will say is knowing a person who will be counting the cards .. new paper work has turned up and a diffrent way of doing things ..
we lost befor we started .. only other option is to leave the uk ..

[Corky34]

- the EU is reformable at all

It's defiantly reformable as that's what all those treaties do, they restructure the way the EU works, obviously if you, i, or anyone thinks that reform was for better or worse is highly debatable.

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but my mind now is made up.

Leave.

Darn, i best not waste anymore of your/my time.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

My 2 cents.

Opinion hasn't changed, though, if anything, I now hate politicians a little more (didn't know that was possible...)?

People should Google the Jonathan Pie Referendum Special.

His closing statements seem spot on.

[Galant]

One thing I'd like to know, is, whether true or not, if you could determine that remaining in the EU would lead to a United States of Europe - a federalised European state, with, despite warnings from Cameron et al, closer unity in every area - would that be something would lead you to vote leave on Thursday?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

One thing I'd like to know, is, whether true or not, if you could determine that remaining in the EU would lead to a United States of Europe - a federalised European state, with, despite warnings from Cameron et al, closer unity in every area - would that be something would lead you to vote leave on Thursday?

Don't worry if we do leave,and Scotland and NI are shown to be more pro-EU overall(and it is England which is pushing a less EU stance),you might find the other Union we are in,oh wait,The United Kingdom might also not exist any more.

Hence,a Brexit is win-win for people against unions,and it would mean England would be free from the shackles of the Scottish and the Irish. Not so sure if the Welsh care either way though!

But it should be the first time in 250+ years,England is utterly free! What have unions like the UK ever done for the whole country??

[Galant]

Don't worry if we you do leave,and Scotland and NI are shown to be more pro-EU overall(and it is England which is pushing a less EU stance),you might find the other Union we are in,oh wait,The United Kingdom might also not exist any more.

Hence,a Brexit is win-win for people against unions,and it would mean England would be free from the shackles of the Scottish and the Irish. Not so sure if the Welsh care either way though!

Not worried. As might be suggested by my post, I'm actually interested in what others think.

[cheesemp]

Remain. If Gove and Johnson weren't good enough reasons to vote the opposite then I don't know what is...

Saying that here are some of my many reasons:
I'd rather gravitate to EU style employment laws rather than US (EU laws protected me from a pay cut back when the crash occurred). If we leave you can be sure we'll go back towards the US way of hiring and firing.
The EU is no more or less under my control than westminster thanks to First past the post - Living where I do I can vote Tory or not bother
I see cooperation as the only way humanity can progress and prevent further wars
I see big financial losses to this country lasting many years if we leave if only from uncertainty
I rather be part of the EU than a US puppet
Helping pull east europe up is altruistic and a good thing to support.

Edit: And one more. I hate the blame being directed to immigrants. It worries me from a historical point of view...

Edit 2: And just in case anyone wants proof about my constituency - see here and historically here - Nothing but conserative voted in since 1950 that I can see...

[Corky34]

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but my mind now is made up.

Leave.

Sorry to reply to the same thing but curiosity gotten the better of me.

Having read some of your posts about Windows 10, privacy, and data collection i have to ask did/does the prospect of the EU (specifically the Human Rights Act) reining in the excesses of the proposed Draft Communications Data Bill not play a part in your decision making process, I'm not questioning the decision you've made it's just that I've found myself agreeing with you many times on your views of privacy, and when i, personally, realised the only chance i had of preventing the worse parts of the Snoopers Charter 3.0 was to remain that pretty much made up my mind.

Like i said I'm not questioning the decision you've made I'd just be interested in the opinion of someone that i think shares similar opinions as mine when it comes to privacy, data collection, and all that stuff.

[Saracen]

It's defiantly reformable as that's what all those treaties do, they restructure the way the EU works, obviously if you, i, or anyone thinks that reform was for better or worse is highly debatable.



Darn, i best not waste anymore of your/my time.

Hmmm. Reform?

Depends on what you mean.

If you listen to what the founding fathers said the plans and objectives were before the common market was even formed, it was, is andcalways will be a political project aimed at European unification. Hence why people keep going on about a United States of Europe. Despite those conversations being in the eatly-mid 1950s, a few of those that were in the room are still alive and talk about it.

What most people seem to mean by "reform" is less centralisation, less interference, more independence. In other words, reform to make the core bits where integration is necessary to be effective, but butting out in other areas, like an activist ECJ actually striking down Acts of a supposedly sovereign Parliament, be it ours or anyvither member.

Every treaty, however, has been progressively implementing that original polutical agenda, step-by-step, bite by bite, exactly in accordance with the agenda. That is implementation, not reform, and it's why they're not up for reform.

And yes, at this point, unless you can come up with something brand new and overwhelmingly convincing, you'd be wasting your time. I've been listening to Remain arguments for months and nothing has worked yet. I can't see that changing with < 48 hours to go. I would never have described myself as "undecided", more as "predisposed to out, but open to be convinced". Now, short of a miracle, I'm locked in, and not really even interested in further csmoaigning. I'm at the switching channel or fast-forwarding point .... whereas the wife is more "fingers in ears humming la-la-la" when someone says "referen.....".

[scaryjim]

One thing I'd like to know, is, whether true or not, if you could determine that remaining in the EU would lead to a United States of Europe - a federalised European state, with, despite warnings from Cameron et al, closer unity in every area - would that be something would lead you to vote leave on Thursday?

Nope, not at all. We live in a perfect example of how nation states can retain their unique national character despite having not only political union but also a shared language and currency. And even on this much smaller scale our central government has had to acknowledge that they can't have absolute rule over the nations of the union, and have acceded a certain amount of power to regional assemblies/parliaments. A federalised Europe, whatever form that takes, would be far too large to effectively govern centrally.

Unless someone can convince me that a Brussels government is significantly more out-of-touch with me than the Westminster government, and is significantly more likely to make my life worse, I will vote Remain and welcome closer ties to the rest of the EU.

[Saracen]

Sorry to reply to the same thing but curiosity gotten the better of me.

Having read some of your posts about Windows 10, privacy, and data collection i have to ask did/does the prospect of the EU (specifically the Human Rights Act) reining in the excesses of the proposed Draft Communications Data Bill not play a part in your decision making process, I'm not questioning the decision you've made it's just that I've found myself agreeing with you many times on your views of privacy, and when i, personally, realised the only chance i had of preventing the worse parts of the Snoopers Charter 3.0 was to remain that pretty much made up my mind.

Like i said I'm not questioning the decision you've made I'd just be interested in the opinion of someone that i think shares similar opinions as mine when it comes to privacy, data collection, and all that stuff.

I see your point, but .... no.

I'm not someone that thinks anything/everything EU is evil. It's about balance. A case in point is EU harmonisation leading to the DSR and then CCR. Good things, IMHO.

My first preference is that the final arbiter on that would be the UK Supreme Court. As far as I'm concerned, the UK is a separate nation, and for all it's numerous faults Parliament should be the final say in our laws, not a bunch of euro judges that we had NO say in the selection of, bar one, and many of whom come from an entirely different legal framework to ours.

This is one of my most fundamental objections in principle to the whole stinking edifice of the EU, and one of the areas where major reform is mandatory for my vote to go Remain.

Put it this way, even where there are occasions where an ECJ ruling might actually go the way I prefer, like on that issue, I fundamentally oppose these unelected judges having ANY ability to strike down Acts of Parliament, even where I oppose that Act. It's undemocratic.

Besides, we already have the ECtHR to handle human rights issues and don't need ECJ judges self-appointing themselves to do it, especially when we were told, no, promised, that the Fundamental Charter DOES NOT apply to us only for those judges to decide, off their own bat, that it does.

So no, far from being a point for Remain, it's a very major point for leave, notwithstanding my views on privacy.