Britain is doomed!! (How is that going to affect you)

[Andy3536]

Genuine question for all the people who voted leave.

What would it take for you to conclude that it was a mistake to leave?

Just to be clear, this isn't a trap or trick question which I'm going to pounce on when you give an answer, I genuinely want to know the furthest parameters of the relatively inevitable dip in our countries prosperity that you would feel is an acceptable level for the hope of a better future.

Good question, but i'm not sure you can give it numbers exactly.
But for my part, i'm well aware that the period between voting for leaving, and actually leaving is going to be tough. The financial markets don't like the unknown and it's clear that there is going to be 2 years of that.
That being said, it's a decision from me that long term will be better (just making clear, better is not 'wealthier'), so it's something than can probably only be answered in 10 years or more. And then, you'd have to look at our prosperity, and compare with that of the EU. You also need to look at what the EU is then. In 10 years the union may well look and behave different. For better or for worse, as lets be honest, we don't know where they will be, and if they will change it's usual course now they've been given a bit of a wake up call. Ironically, it could be the catalyst for real change in Europe. I'm not so sure, but it's still a possibility at this stage.
At the moment, Britain unemployment rate is very good, and been improving year after year. I think that will be a key indicator in 10 or more years. But that would have to been seen in terms of a comparison with a number of the stronger EU economies.
It's not going to be a case of one thing.
So in 10 years time, what's our unemployment rate. How does that fit in with the EU. And what states is the EU in (politically as well as financially) and just how acceptable is that.
Here's a current comparison of the unemployment rates.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...April_2016.png

At the moment though, far too many of the EU countries in the eurozone are straddled with large debts, there's no real plan in place to deal with that. The EU as a financial market is going to be under alot of pressure at the same time we're working towards and in the early stages of leaving. I really can't see a situation where our econemy stalls and the EUs takes off. We may well be slightly down on where we could be if we stayed in the EU and out the euro crises. But that's perfectly acceptable.

[Galant]

Genuine question for all the people who voted leave.

What would it take for you to conclude that it was a mistake to leave?

Just to be clear, this isn't a trap or trick question which I'm going to pounce on when you give an answer, I genuinely want to know the furthest parameters of the relatively inevitable dip in our countries prosperity that you would feel is an acceptable level for the hope of a better future.

I don't think I'd consider it a mistake, apart from in a pragmatic sense. That's because I didn't vote based on any expected results (e.g. economic, immigration etc.) but for more democratic power to be returned to the British people, and beyond just power, a move to focus on 'taking care of our own house'. There are just a number or principles that make me anti-EU. The only way I could see it as the 'wrong' move is if it all proves irrelevant in the end and UK politics and society ends up as authoritatrian and top-heavy as the EU. Either way, I think this will always have been the right move at the time.

I will also say, though, that the vision for Brexit isn't just one vote. The vote is just a big, initial step in a longer process of Britain building a stronger, more robust, healthier democracy, based on activity, community, communication, education and respect.

Mature individuals can work together out of choice, I hope to see a more mature and independent Britain, politically and culturally.

[Corky34]

The point is, now migration is the sole responsibility of the party governing the country. They'll put what they want to achieve in their manifesto and you can vote on that. If they get it wrong, or don't achieve those goals. Vote for someone else. But they are accountable for what they say. That discussion will also be reopened every 5 years.

Whether it's the sole responsibility or not doesn't change the original point CAT-THE-FIFTH made that, "a reasonable number of the older folk locally saying they were voting leave so it would stop all migration", whose responsible for it doesn't change that people who voted leave expecting it to stop migration pointed the finger of blame at the wrong people.

Migration from outside the EU should always be higher, given the large communities already here with family ties in India, Pakistan, Australia, New Zealand etc. We should have always have been looking there and to other commonwealth countries for positive migration anyway. But now, those policies can be talked about aswell as numbers.

Should be higher or will be higher?
Seeing at EU migrants contribute far more than non-EU migrants it seems odd to say we should be taking in more non-EU migrants.

[Andy3536]

Whether it's the sole responsibility or not doesn't change the original point CAT-THE-FIFTH made that, "a reasonable number of the older folk locally saying they were voting leave so it would stop all migration", whose responsible for it doesn't change that people who voted leave expecting it to stop migration pointed the finger of blame at the wrong people.

Yes, i'm well aware of that point, but as i also said. Those people he was listening to arn't typical. Surely that's not up for debate is it, are you suggesting all 17million people were expecting to bring migration down to 0? Or are we just talking about 2 old people?
That's the trouble, you can't listen to a couple of people talking, and expect to imply that's the position of loads of people.
That's why i also explained why i might be seeing things differently.

Should be higher or will be higher?
Seeing at EU migrants contribute far more than non-EU migrants it seems odd to say we should be taking in more non-EU migrants.

Should, and will no doubt. Trouble is your only making the argument from an economic case. As i said, there are more important things in this discussion than money. Those with family ties, those from within the commonwealth should find it easier to come here than those from the EU.

[Biscuit]

Good question, but i'm not sure you can give it numbers exactly.

Honestly I'm not expecting specific numbers, I'm just curious as to the considerations and internal conflict (if any) to the potential negative long-term repercussions and chance that we wont actually recover at all, however unlikely you might think that is. If you're excited and eager to see the future then fine, I just want to know the other side of your mentality (if there is one) even though it's of lesser value to your final decision. Like I said, I'm not trying to catch people I out, I just want to know where the limits of your decision lie and at what point you would say... "damn, we messed that one up".
If we even see stabilisation in my life-time, I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong and offer my heart felt respect and thanks to those with better foresight than I, even if it was little more than a gamble that paid off.

From Galant, it seems the closest he would come to this conclusion, would be if there's a big push towards a deeply authoritarian state, which is actually also a significant fear I share.

[opel80uk]

I will also say, though, that the vision for Brexit isn't just one vote. The vote is just a big, initial step in a longer process of Britain building a stronger, more robust, healthier democracy, based on activity, community, communication, education and respect.

Mature individuals can work together out of choice, I hope to see a more mature and independent Britain, politically and culturally.

The man favourite to be the next Prime Minister as a direct result of this vote once wrote:

'It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies," with "watermelon smiles".

a 'a more mature and independent Britain, politically and culturally'. Indeed.

[peterb]

For many, I suspect the leave vote is a reflection that the UK was denied a vote on the Lisbon treaty which effectively introduced closer political union. While immigration may be the face of loss of self determination, the seeds of that loss of self determination were sown in the Lisbon and Maastricht treaties (not for nothing was the latter referred to as the Mass tricked treaty).

That was (IMHO) the turning point when the EU moved from a free trade area to wards a political superstate. To his credit, Gordon Brown refused to join the Eurozone (although he probably knew that would be a step to far anyway).

Had there been a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, there may not have been a call for a referendum which resulted in Thursday's vote.

I finf the arrogance of Junkers truly breathtaking though, demanding that the UK starts negotiating immediately. The referendum gives the Government a mandate (in fact a direction) to invoke article 50, but not the timescale, although it is signalling an intention.

But the timescale is firmly down to the UK, and until then, we remain a full member of the U.K. Negotiation can start before formal notification, and probably better that it does as we would be excluded from some of the decision making processes once it is invoked.

There is scope for plenty of wriggle room if required.

However, the desire to push for a rapid exit seems to suggest that the Brussels beuaurocrats are not confident that the EU is such a good thing that other Countries might start questioning their own membership.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Ugghh:

http://news.sky.com/story/1717499/ta...et-over-brexit

That was unexpected!! Thought a lower pound would help steel making look a better prospect in the country.

I'll take that at face value, that's fair enough. But it's not 'typical'

TBH, i'm seeing things very differently. I come from an area that voted a long way in favor of leaving, everyone i work with voted out bar 1. And (if the pessimists are to be believed)there could be serious implications for that as we are a European warranty center for a large international company.
But, some decisions are more important than money, more important than a few percentage points of GDP. Most people seem to be really happy, and cautiously optimistic.
But, then again. That's probably to be expected from an area that voted out by such a margin, and many of the surrounding areas are voting out to an even greater margin.

Fair enough - like I said its round my area,so OFC YMMV! In fact even the local newspaper sort of backed up immigration was the main concern of the people interviewed,and some were talking about asylum seekers too.

[Corky34]

Yes, i'm well aware of that point, but as i also said. Those people he was listening to arn't typical. Surely that's not up for debate is it, are you suggesting all 17million people were expecting to bring migration down to 0? Or are we just talking about 2 old people?
That's the trouble, you can't listen to a couple of people talking, and expect to imply that's the position of loads of people.
That's why i also explained why i might be seeing things differently.

But that's not the case, immigration and supposed control of borders was the second highest reason for people voting to leave, so it wasn't just 2 old people.

Should, and will no doubt. Trouble is your only making the argument from an economic case. As i said, there are more important things in this discussion than money. Those with family ties, those from within the commonwealth should find it easier to come here than those from the EU.

There maybe more important things than money but without money you're going to have a hard time doing any of those other important things.

[TooNice]

As i said, there are more important things in this discussion than money.

Though I am sure there are people who are happy to die for their conviction, I wonder how many people will really sing that tune if they find themselves in a situation where they are out of job and unable to put food on the table.

[Andy3536]

But that's not the case, immigration and supposed control of borders was the second highest reason for people voting to leave, so it wasn't just 2 old people.

Actually, what you've done is taken a post, and completely mis represented the context.
Wasn't saying that people having worrys about migration didn't get people voting, but that the specifics being discussed in the post i quoted, i.e. 2 people believing migration would stop completely wasn't in any way typical.

There maybe more important things than money but without money you're going to have a hard time doing any of those other important things.

If you vote on anything political, based on how well off you'd be. Not on what principles you'd like to see enacted. That would be a very sad situation.
You must vote with your conviction, what you believe is right. And in this case what i believe will be beneficial to the country 10, 20, 30 years from now.
I'll continue to do that, and that has meant my vote has been very different in national and local elections. I've voted Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem in my time. Based on what i believe is best for the nation or the local community. You may not always like the way i vote, but you can't criticize that surely?

[TooNice]

Well, hopefully this won't become a case where "the road to a hell is paved with good intentions", and the short term shock will remain short term. The UK could learn a couple of things from Japan, but the lost decade (and fear of foreigners) isn't one of them.

Way I see it, people won't agree on the kind of government they want. They will not agree on the level of immigration. They will not agree on whether austerity is the right option. But few will object to more job security and maintaining/increasing wealth. We're doing alright as a nation, but I don't think that we are doing so amazingly well that a vote for stability is such a bad principle.

[outwar6010]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103061.html

[OilSheikh]

Genuine question for all the people who voted leave.

What would it take for you to conclude that it was a mistake to leave?

It was absolutely not a mistake to Leave. I have been saying for many years that uncontrolled immigration from East Europe is not sustainable and has had a negative effect on the quality of our lives. Did you seriously think this farce would continue forever?

[Biscuit]

It was absolutely not a mistake to Leave. I have been saying for many years that uncontrolled immigration from East Europe is not sustainable and has had a negative effect on the quality of our lives. Did you seriously think this farce would continue forever?

Please read the question again.

[TeePee]

Please read the question again.

I did not vote, however I could see a failing British Economy in the 10-15 year timescale, while Europe succeeds to be an indication of a mistake.

I don't believe that will happen. Should the British Government actually leave, rather than forcing repeated referendums, I see Britain as world leading economy in that timescale, with Frexit and Nexit in 7-10 years, as the European experiment continues it's collapse.