Is this a real thing?

[Saracen]

Loads of them - apparently

Hmmm. "Apparently", indeed.

As a cynic, how do we know those saying they voted Leave and regret it actually voted Leave at all? I mean, unless you(*) can get access to their specific, actual ballot papers, and the electoral lists with reference numbers, and don't mind committing several serious criminal offences in the process, they can claim to have voted anything and it can't be challenged.

It is, however, not a bad way to undermine credibility.

Maybe I voted Remain but now wish I hadn't.



(*) A generic "you", not you personally, Phage.

[Peter Parker]

Hmmm. "Apparently", indeed.

As a cynic, how do we know those saying they voted Leave and regret it actually voted Leave at all? I mean, unless you(*) can get access to their specific, actual ballot papers, and the electoral lists with reference numbers, and don't mind committing several serious criminal offences in the process, they can claim to have voted anything and it can't be challenged.

It is, however, not a bad way to undermine credibility.

Maybe I voted Remain but now wish I hadn't.

(*) A generic "you", not you personally, Phage.

I admire your cynicism. More fact checking please! The Survation poll data is here http://www.markpack.org.uk/files/201...rexit-poll.pdf

Q4 asked what way they voted. Then there's stuff about the next Tory leader, and Q10 is whether they regretted voting leave/remain. So if they say they regret voting leave, they definitely also said they voted leave. Without knowing that Q10 is coming up, a 'remain' voter is unlikely to say they voted leave. There's also a contact email in the PDF, so you could email them and ask

[DanceswithUnix]

Some people seem to be going through the 5 stages of grieving with this.

We had Denial and Anger pretty fast, now seem to be hearing lots of Bargaining. Hopefully we can get through Depression and into Acceptance and move on.

[Zak33]

it's blatant click bait.


I think i'll not post here again, it was nice for a while. But it's become bitter, angry and completely disrespectful. With moderators not calming, and in some places inflaming the situation as well.
It's really not worth it.
Nice while it lasted.

that's a pity. it's lasted 9 years for you... you joined in 2007.

I don't think a picture of Churchill saying something so profound is click bait. The man said mostly clever or v clever things. And anyone who deals with the public daily, knows he's right.

Moderators do calm things. I do. But that's not to stop debate and it's also not to be utterly neutral. None of us are utterly neutral. We fight among ourselves and with you too. At no point did I call you any nasty names. Unless... it was you who voted to Leave and then changed your mind because you didn't mean it. In which case I stand by my statement.

Anyone who votes and doesn't mean what they put a cross in the box to support, doesn't realise the depth of importance of the question.

Was I shocked that Leave won? Yup
Was I shocked at the tumultuous backlash when it occurred? Nope
Was I shocked by David C resigned? Nope... I'd not stop to sort out someone elses decisions when the bloke in my cabinet wants the job
Was I surprised by the pound crashing? Nope
Was I surprised by the EU wanting us gone ASAP? Nope
Do I expect them to play hardball on our leaving to make a public execution of the leavers to stop anyone else doing it? Yes
Does that worry me? Yes. a lot.

Do people who vote LEAVE as a protest vote but don't mean us to leave make me a tad tense?,.....................



you decide big boy.

[Zak33]

8;25 am radio 4

Bright.leave voter explaining being pleased to.leave

And another regretting her vote

I'm in greater respect for the one I disagree with
And I'm quite disrespectful of the person who regrets the vote they placed in.s show of protest

[jimbouk]

And I'm quite disrespectful of the person who regrets the vote they placed in.s show of protest

Have people not heard of spoiling their ballot? I mean I would go so far as a dirty protest, but submitting it blank or drawing a picture of a kitten on it has the same outcome.

[Lanky123]

Have people not heard of spoiling their ballot? I mean I would go so far as a dirty protest, but submitting it blank or drawing a picture of a kitten on it has the same outcome.

I think our First Past The Post system in GEs has something to do with it. While spoiling the ballot in a GE is a generally understood means of stating 'none of the above' it has also become an accepted part of the system to vote for protest candidates (especially in safe seats where it will have essentially no impact) or vote tactically to keep someone out etc. People may just transferring that principle, albeit with little understanding for the differences and without a proper understanding of how dangerous a game it was.

That said, I find it very hard to believe that this made a difference of a million or more votes.

[Jowsey]

I've tried not to discuss it too much as there seems to be little middle ground on this topic. When you meet a person who voted opposite to you it more often then not degrades to just insults and upset. But in my office of about 100 people, the few people that voted leave (I'd guesstimate at about 15?) 3 have admitted to it being a protest vote just to make it a close run and have said they regret it.

I don't imagine that for 1 second that is a representative sample of the country but the very fact that there are people who are regretting their decision is a sad day for voting.

The only responsibility you have as a voter is to make an informed decision. Otherwise, what hope does democracy have if people don't appreciate the vote they hold?

But for now, it's head down time as we have a good amount of graft in front of us and we need to make this work as there is no going back.

[Saracen]

I admire your cynicism. More fact checking please! The Survation poll data is here http://www.markpack.org.uk/files/201...rexit-poll.pdf

Q4 asked what way they voted. Then there's stuff about the next Tory leader, and Q10 is whether they regretted voting leave/remain. So if they say they regret voting leave, they definitely also said they voted leave. Without knowing that Q10 is coming up, a 'remain' voter is unlikely to say they voted leave. There's also a contact email in the PDF, so you could email them and ask

Oh, polling data. It must be right, then.

[TooNice]

I'm not so sure that's enough or even correct. Schooling is not necessarily correlated with good decision making anyway. On a global level, we have fairly high basic literacy and numeracy, but for many it's just enough to be a productive low-wage worker and a mass-market consumer and no more.

We're not really taught to think analytically.

When I say "many parts of the world", I was including countries where not everyone even get a basic education Even a mix bag in a developed country can't be that bad.. I reasoned.

We're also apparently above average in science. I'd argue that science do promote analysis and critical thought.

But perhaps my belief in our education was indeed misguided. And I should not expect everyone of voting age (and mentally able) to follow due diligence when it comes to voting. That's just great.

[SeriousSam]

Science does promote analysis and critical thought, but it has limits in that (a) you are supposed to put emotion completely aside and (b) it relies on quantifiable and repeatable data. Hence why it can tell us whether gene editing is feasible or not, but is of limited use in regards to the question of "should we?". What we should be teaching in schools to improve peoples ability to reason is philosophy. There have been a number of trials which showed that it not only improved reasoning, but also behaviour and overall exam results. Obviously it is a huge subject so we'd have to decide exactly what was taught in order to ensure a degree of balance. However, one of the great things is that it for any given question there are arguments both ways which can be used as talking points. Ultimately teaching kids to discuss topics and communicate without resorting to emotional outbursts can only be a good thing. You only have to look at social media to realise that it is woefully lacking at present.

[big_hairy_rob]

Whether you voted your preference for Leave or Remain, Abstained from the vote or were ineligible, I am deeply concerned that the government does not appear to have a contingency plan in place for this situation. The petty squabbling and in-fighting is doing nothing to reassure a worried population and could lead to further harm.

I am sick to death of the insults from all sides, levying assumptions on peoples intelligence, fear mongering and generally pointing out the worst traits in humanity on all sides to prove petty points. If we invested the same time and effort in trying to make this democratic decision work then we'd be a better nation, rather than one attempting to tear itself apart.

Still not convinced? Why would the majority of elderly voters, reliant on the price of shares/currency indexes for their pensions vote to leave a 'flawed system', knowing that it could seriously affect them? Doesn't sound like it was for their benefit, so maybe it is for ours.

[big_hairy_rob]

Oh and School education really does not teach critical thinking. The current education system is setup to reward the regurgitation of spoon-fed information, to ensure that they hit centrally appointed targets. Maybe we should consider changing this as well?

[kalniel]

Oh and School education really does not teach critical thinking. The current education system is setup to reward the regurgitation of spoon-fed information, to ensure that they hit centrally appointed targets. Maybe we should consider changing this as well?

Depends what result you're after. Remember most people educated by the current system voted remain, while those from a much older system voted leave. If you want a different result from the current system it would presumably have created more leave voters

[Corky34]

Still not convinced? Why would the majority of elderly voters, reliant on the price of shares/currency indexes for their pensions vote to leave a 'flawed system', knowing that it could seriously affect them? Doesn't sound like it was for their benefit, so maybe it is for ours.

Have you ever tried telling telling an elderly person anything? You don't tell them you ask them politely while showing some respect, otherwise you're liable to get a disproving look, or worse yet get whacked with a walking stick or handbag.

[Ttaskmaster]

Apparently it is the real thing!

It is *A* real thing... it is not *THE* Real Thing™.
Be careful with your choice of words. You don't want to go down the Sky™ route like all the others!!

And I so I wanted to believe that a developed country like ours, with some of the most prestigious universities in the world, not to mention relatively affordable education, was more than equipped to handle the responsibility of democracy.

Means nothing...
Americans generally seem to know FAR more about domestic and foreign politics, seem able to argue and debate with FAR greater understanding of even our own country's workings than I, seem far more in tune with what would be a sensible option for a favourable outcome in most circumstances... and yet not only did they vote in George Bush, but they went and voted in George W as well!!!!!

I'd argue that science do promote analysis and critical thought.

When it comes to matters of the textbook, maybe... But given how none of our University graduates, scientists and engineers (here at work) seem capable of tying their own shoelaces, I'd argue that critical thinking in a way that includes how the real world works is not something covered in their expensive educations...

We have a number of Out voters here who actually voted without knowing what the EU actually is.
I think things were further spoiled by not having the option to exit the EU without exiting the EEC.