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Thread: Politics, politics..

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Politics, politics..

    Well, they say a week is a long time in politics but still...

    So, in the wake of the unexpected BREXIT vote, we have had a turbulent two and a half weeks in politics.

    Following Andrea Leadsom's withdrawal from the Conservative party leadership contest means that our next PM will be Theresa May, and probably sooner than expected as there won't be a leadership election by the party membership - which can only be good for the country in the short term in that it will help reduce uncertainty.

    Personally, thought Andea Leadsom's letter announcing her decision to withdraw was excellent, and I'm sure she will be in the new cabinet, when it is announced

    Meanwhile the Labour Party, which should be the main credible opposition party is in a bit of a meltdown, losing the support of his parliamentary party, but claimong to have a large mandate from the party membership.

    So it will be interesting to see how that one develops.
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    Now 100% Apple free cheesemp's Avatar
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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Looks like the Conservatives have torpedoed labour when they are at their weakest holding a leadership election (having assumed they had the time to do so while the tory one ran). Wonder if this was semi-deliberate?
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Politics, politics..

    If Leadsom has dropped out, why hasn't the place in the leadership vote gone to the third placed candidate, a certain Mr Gove?

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemp View Post
    Looks like the Conservatives have torpedoed labour when they are at their weakest holding a leadership election (having assumed they had the time to do so while the tory one ran). Wonder if this was semi-deliberate?
    There have been rumblings within the Parliamentary Labour Party about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership almost since he was elected, but the referendum has just brought those into sharper focus.

    But it's true that Andrea Leadsom's decision will probably shift the focus onto the Labour Party and while Jeremy Corbyn is refusing to submit to a re-election, that circus is going to rumble on.

    I was listening to Diane Abbott this morning on The Today programme, talking about his big mandate!


    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    If Leadsom has dropped out, why hasn't the place in the leadership vote gone to the third placed candidate, a certain Mr Gove?
    Gove had already been eliminated from the contest, and even if his votes had been added to Leadsom's, there would still have been less than those for Theresa May.

    But that apart, I think Gove would have been hard pushed to win a contest.

    An end to the vacuum surrounding the next PM can only be a good thing though.
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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Puts into question the democratic process within the Conservative party though, surely?



    ...seems that's actually a good deal now, as the 0.2% don't even get to vote...

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    It's been an unbelievable 7 days in terms of politics.

    You have Labour who have been plotting for months to oust Jeremy, the idea that it was because of the EU is nonsense. They already planned to do it in time for whatever the outcome.

    Resignations galore.

    Judging by what happened in Greece and Ireland, I'd say in the short-term the UK will likely get hammered. We are becoming a country of identity politics which isn't a good thing imo.

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    There have been rumblings within the Parliamentary Labour Party about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership almost since he was elected, but the referendum has just brought those into sharper focus.

    But it's true that Andrea Leadsom's decision will probably shift the focus onto the Labour Party and while Jeremy Corbyn is refusing to submit to a re-election, that circus is going to rumble on.

    I was listening to Diane Abbott this morning on The Today programme, talking about his big mandate!




    Gove had already been eliminated from the contest, and even if his votes had been added to Leadsom's, there would still have been less than those for Theresa May.

    But that apart, I think Gove would have been hard pushed to win a contest.

    An end to the vacuum surrounding the next PM can only be a good thing though.
    Yes and no - yes in that this country has been through an incredibly turbulent, traumatic time recently, and certainty has been rather thin on the ground; no for the same reason you want a strong, credible opposition, i.e. too much power or too much of a mandate in one person is not desirable for the sakes of checks and balances.

    In terms of 'strong politicians', Theresa May is up there with George Galloway and Nigel Farage. I do hate her (less now than a couple of years ago when she was trying to push through the snoopers charter etc), but she's clearly the least bad of that trio. Doesn't seem like anyone else in the public eye at the moment has the mettle and support to attempt to heal the rifts that 2016 has created, and it's certainly a relief that a remainer is in power; I just hope that her hinting about repatriation is just a ploy to appeal to the disaffected masses who voted to leave.

    Next up please, let's have a credible opposition to hold her to account and have less right-wing policies than we have had in the last 30 years.

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Theresa May seems to be quite widely regarded on both sides of the House.

    She championed the Hillsborough enquiry for example and got quite fulsome praise from the shadow Home Secretary.
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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Gove had already been eliminated from the contest, and even if his votes had been added to Leadsom's, there would still have been less than those for Theresa May.
    It's not about the MPs though, the membership didn't get a chance to have a say. The MPs get to choose their two preferred candidates and the membership then chooses between them. If Leadsom isn't running then the top two candidates are Gove and May.

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    There have been rumblings within the Parliamentary Labour Party about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership almost since he was elected, but the referendum has just brought those into sharper focus.
    I took it that the possibility of a general election being bandied around after the brexit vote was the cause of the focus.

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Let's be clear, it Corbyn goes we won't have an opposition - we'll have a cautionary footnote. Most of the centrist/centre-right Labour MPs who oppose Corbyn will not effectively oppose the majority of Conservative policy because it's very close to their own preference anyway. The PLP is clearly a long way out of touch with the party membership; Corbyn got quarter of a million votes from party members/supporters just last year. That's more grassroots support for Corbyn than there are Conservative Party members in total. The fact that the sitting Labour MPs didn't look at that and think to themselves "Hm, there's a lesson to be learned here; people like the things Jeremy says" says a lot about the state of British politics. There must be a lot of people sitting on benches in Westminster who aren't even vaguely representing the views of the people who sent them there...

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    May's survival of a difficult role for years shows she obviously has some ability.

    Anyone else find that video of Eagle really sad? You kind of want to go up and give her a hub, tell her everything will be alright, it's just a dream, it's not 1982.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Let's be clear, it Corbyn goes we won't have an opposition - we'll have a cautionary footnote. Most of the centrist/centre-right Labour MPs who oppose Corbyn will not effectively oppose the majority of Conservative policy because it's very close to their own preference anyway. The PLP is clearly a long way out of touch with the party membership; Corbyn got quarter of a million votes from party members/supporters just last year. That's more grassroots support for Corbyn than there are Conservative Party members in total. The fact that the sitting Labour MPs didn't look at that and think to themselves "Hm, there's a lesson to be learned here; people like the things Jeremy says" says a lot about the state of British politics. There must be a lot of people sitting on benches in Westminster who aren't even vaguely representing the views of the people who sent them there...
    Let's be clear, if Corbyn stays we won't have an opposition either. Quite aside from his lack of support in the PLP, he showed no interest in holding government to account over the NHS and junior doctors contracts and campaigned to remain without a single ounce of enthusiasm. Having a lot (not by the context of the entire country, mind you, or people that petitioned for a second referendum) of rabidly angry young people who would rather a tory government out of spite than a Blairite is not a recipe for success in the endeavour of healing wounds.
    Last edited by wazzickle; 11-07-2016 at 11:39 PM.

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Let's be clear,
    You ARE Tony Blair and I claim my £10

    The Labour OLP may be out of touch with the party membership, but they are not elected solely by Labour Party members. They may be selected as candidates by the party, but once elected they perform their constituency roles for all their constituents.

    They also have to fulfill their political party roles, and if they have no confidence in the party leadership, they are less likely to be effective either in Government or Opposition.
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    Re: Politics, politics..

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    It's not about the MPs though, the membership didn't get a chance to have a say. The MPs get to choose their two preferred candidates and the membership then chooses between them. If Leadsom isn't running then the top two candidates are Gove and May.
    While I agree in principle, does anyone seriously believe that at this point, after everything that's happened, Gove can beat May?

    Because, here's the thing. If there's a contest, the direct inference of that is another 9 weeks of uncertainty with nobody really running the UK. And that uncertainty is bad for UK PLC. On the other hand, we have a new PM by Wednesday evening, most of a Cabinet by Thursday, and 9 weeks of uncertainty avoided.

    In my opinion, if .... and I stress IF .... May seeks to radically change direction from the mandate the Tories got at the election (which includes having the referendum and respecting the result), then we certainly need a aay in the PM, and preferably by a General Election.

    But if not, if she sticks by the mandate the Tories have, then the faster we have a leader back in place and running things, the better for us all.

    So while a leadership election, or even general ekection, is great in principle, given how up in the air so much is with Brexit, it's an indulgence we can't afford unless it's absolutely necessary.

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    Re: Politics, politics..

    It's a fait accompli - Theresa May will be our next PM, and given the disarray labour finds itself in, she's likely to call a general election pretty pronto. Might even literally be the first thing she does in office.

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