Page 6 of 21 FirstFirst ... 345678916 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 96 of 332

Thread: Cladding

  1. #81
    bored of Vienetta now
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,782
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked
    685 times in 518 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    Another concern is that steel is not fire resistant while bricks are, so just replacing bricks with steel is not an obvious swap.
    You say that, and it would kind of make sense given how they're fired when they're made, but I've seen brick walls after fires where the surfaces just fall off with the lightest touch and the brick is compromised. Like accelerated frost damage. My hypothesis is the same mechanism that causes freeze-thaw blowing of the brick face occurs in the fire situation: trapped water heats, expands and worse changes state in the fire temps to burst the brick. Then the thermal shock of the rapid cooling under fire-engine pressure hosed water causes enough stress differential to just shatter the faces, which then hang loosely on whatever it is that keeps them there until someone walks past and <pop> the faces drop like leaves in the fall.

  2. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,450
    Thanks
    288
    Thanked
    295 times in 206 posts

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Government (national and local) procurement is complex and is intended to provide best value for money for the tax payer. (another subjective term).
    Oh for sure and i wasn't trying to imply it's a simple process, i was just trying to get Ttaskmaster to answer one of the many questions I've put to him instead of holding incongruent beliefs.

  3. #83
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    2,793
    Thanks
    66
    Thanked
    143 times in 109 posts
    • Butcher's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI Z97 Gaming 3
      • CPU:
      • i7-4790K
      • Memory:
      • 8 GB Corsair 1866 MHz
      • Storage:
      • 120GB SSD, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • Antec 650W
      • Case:
      • Big Black Cube!
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    You say that, and it would kind of make sense given how they're fired when they're made, but I've seen brick walls after fires where the surfaces just fall off with the lightest touch and the brick is compromised. Like accelerated frost damage. My hypothesis is the same mechanism that causes freeze-thaw blowing of the brick face occurs in the fire situation: trapped water heats, expands and worse changes state in the fire temps to burst the brick. Then the thermal shock of the rapid cooling under fire-engine pressure hosed water causes enough stress differential to just shatter the faces, which then hang loosely on whatever it is that keeps them there until someone walks past and <pop> the faces drop like leaves in the fall.
    I was more thinking along the lines of building regulations where brick is considered a fire resistant material (so can be used uncovered) while steel is not (so has to be boxed in or coated). Nothing houses are typically built from is completely fireproof, but a brick wall should last several hours (depending on thickness), while uncovered steel will last minutes.

  4. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,450
    Thanks
    288
    Thanked
    295 times in 206 posts

    Re: Cladding

    AFAIK it's not so much about the fire resistive performance of bricks vs steel as both are very good, it's their structural integrity when exposed to heat.

  5. #85
    “High End” Admin peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    18,663
    Thanks
    2,600
    Thanked
    3,152 times in 2,507 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    AFAIK it's not so much about the fire resistive performance of bricks vs steel as both are very good, it's their structural integrity when exposed to heat.
    Yes, I think that was one of factors in the twin towers fire - steel loses strength when exposed to high temperatures.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  6. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    2,793
    Thanks
    66
    Thanked
    143 times in 109 posts
    • Butcher's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI Z97 Gaming 3
      • CPU:
      • i7-4790K
      • Memory:
      • 8 GB Corsair 1866 MHz
      • Storage:
      • 120GB SSD, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • Antec 650W
      • Case:
      • Big Black Cube!
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    AFAIK it's not so much about the fire resistive performance of bricks vs steel as both are very good, it's their structural integrity when exposed to heat.
    Yes, there are two parts to fire resistance for building materials, does it burn, does it fall down when exposed to fire. Bricks perform well in both categories, steel only in the first.

  7. #87
    bored of Vienetta now
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,782
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked
    685 times in 518 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    Yes, there are two parts to fire resistance for building materials, does it burn, does it fall down when exposed to fire. Bricks perform well in both categories, steel only in the first.
    Generally true, but you can compensate by designing the steel member to have residual capacity and trying to optimise the surface area to volume ratio. It's all to do with the strength reduction as steel heats about the critical temperatures. Up to 250C no real problem. by 500C 50% strength gone. by 700C buckle-ahoy and by 1000C it really is off on its merry way. Most people go for fire-boarding (££) or intumescent coatings (££££), but sometimes it is actually more economical to just use heavier beams to compensate. You can also do some full-on fire modelling to determine the fire gas temperatures and fire-loading. A large, well ventilated space with little fuel source (like a big atrium with hard surfaces and lots of windows) won't get the same heat build-up as say, a poorly ventilated, low-ceiling office floor full of filing cabinets, books, wood desks, acoustic partitions etc etc where the fire load and associated peak temperatures and duration will be larger and longer.
    Last edited by ik9000; 24-05-2018 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Typo: big, not bit.

  8. #88
    RGB Champion Ttaskmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    4,294
    Thanks
    138
    Thanked
    457 times in 381 posts
    • Ttaskmaster's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X99-PRO
      • CPU:
      • i7 5960X o/c to 4.summat
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Corsair DDR4 somethingorother
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Evo 120GB and Seagate Baracuda 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte G1 GTX980Ti
      • PSU:
      • EVGA Supernova G2 1000W
      • Case:
      • Phankecks Enthoo Luxe perspex window
      • Operating System:
      • Win10 64 Home
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer Predator XB270HU 1440 IPS GSync
      • Internet:
      • BT 0.7Mbps 'In The Sticks' version

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    @Ttaskmaster, Like i said you seem to believe companies motivated entirely by profit would actually put people lives before profit despite mountains of evidence showing that's not the case
    No, I believe your seeming assumption that all private companies are motivated by profit alone to be highly erroneous. You seem so desperate to blame anyone and everyone for this, while branding them as evil corporate megalomaniacs...

    But even assuming they are, anything that results in harm to peoples' lives would result in serious fines and other actions, which would harm profits, so it's in their best interests to keep people safe anyway. The damage such events can do to a company, even if that company is not directly responsible, is precisely why Network Rail have such heavy penalties for other companies causing problems on their assets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    i believe we have to prescribe minimum safety standards so companies don't put profit before lives like they've done many times in the past
    Oh, do we not have any minimum safety standards, then?
    We do?
    So why aren't these evil private profit-governed companies adhering to them?
    Who is inspecting their work and checking their materials?
    Who is verifying all this?
    Who is responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Your answer to me saying prescriptive regulation were flouted is to link to an article that says exactly that? That the manufacturer of the cladding disregarded safety standards originally claimed.
    The manufacturer, now?
    So not the construction company, the building inspector, the industry regulators, or even the local government have that responsibility?

    As for your safety standards, the article also highlights just how few people in the construction industry (public, private and varying degrees of profit) are even being made aware of these regulations, as well as how there is no complete consensus on what the regs should actually be in the first place.

    So yeah, get in a nice profit-driven engineering company and pay them to figure out once and for all what the flippin' safety standards are, govern the methods of communication and ensure EVERYONE is fully aware of current regulations. This means a very heavy buck stops with them and such responsibility will mean a large price... but conversely the large price also means that when the fertiliser hits the ventialtor, it's their ventilator it ultimately hits!

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Very true, i only asked that because Ttaskmaster seemed unwilling to even consider someone other than private for profit companies should decide.
    Like who?
    A frequently corrupt public body motivated by political gain, the desire to rule and the profit-motivated restriction of taxpayer value?
    How is that ANY different from a private profit-maker? At least with the latter the profit might be going to useful shareholders like your pension schemes, rather than paying off some MP's third holiday home or their porn bill...!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    A steel brick that had been weathered for a number of years might fail due to rusting,
    Would not be subject to a compression test and would be coated to protect against rust in the first place....

    But once more, for those of you in the cheap seats - Pick any hypothetical innovation you like and apply it to the principle illustrated in the example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    I mean, leaving aside that no one in their right mind would create bricks out of steel in the first place.
    Ah... right.... You'd better tell that to Caunton Eng, then, before they spend too much of that £1m of your tax money the government gave them...!!

  9. #89
    Ryzen Master race outwar6010's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Londinium
    Posts
    1,851
    Thanks
    354
    Thanked
    210 times in 141 posts
    • outwar6010's system
      • Motherboard:
      • asus Crosshair x370
      • CPU:
      • 1800x @ Stock
      • Memory:
      • Team Group Dark Pro Edition 16GB (2X8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHZ
      • Storage:
      • More than most
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nzxt g12 1080ti
      • PSU:
      • corsair ax 760
      • Case:
      • Corsair 900d
      • Operating System:
      • windows 10 pro 64 bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • hp omen 32
      • Internet:
      • Bt infinite

    Re: Cladding

    I mean how can people not blame solely kensington and chelsea council? They have almost 300Million in reserve but called grenfell tower residents troublemakers for wanting sprinklers and highlighting such safety concerns (I think) over a year before the horrible tragedy happened...
    "Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured."


  10. #90
    bored of Vienetta now
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,782
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked
    685 times in 518 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by outwar6010 View Post
    I mean how can people not blame solely kensington and chelsea council? They have almost 300Million in reserve but called grenfell tower residents troublemakers for wanting sprinklers and highlighting such safety concerns (I think) over a year before the horrible tragedy happened...
    It was run by the K&C TMO. A private housing association run on behalf of RBKC council. It would be interesting to see how they are intertwined. In my experience they chopped and changed their interpretation to suit themselves. Like when I had problems with my heating just before Christmas and complained to the Environmental Health dept the TMO weren't taking it seriously, the officer did his best to assist but was then over-ruled from on high as "it is technically the council enforcing against the council, so we can't do it". Shortly after that we all got abrupt letters from the TMO advising that in future any calls to RBKC EH would be diverted to the TMO's own (not very responsive) maintenance line. Which I'm not entirely sure complies with someone's statutory rights. I was glad to leave that flat. The flat itself was really nice, as was my direct landlord, but all the communal services depended on the TMO and not something I particularly enjoyed having to deal with.

  11. #91
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,450
    Thanks
    288
    Thanked
    295 times in 206 posts

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    No, I believe your seeming assumption that all private companies are motivated by profit alone to be highly erroneous. You seem so desperate to blame anyone and everyone for this, while branding them as evil corporate megalomaniacs...

    But even assuming they are, anything that results in harm to peoples' lives would result in serious fines and other actions, which would harm profits, so it's in their best interests to keep people safe anyway. The damage such events can do to a company, even if that company is not directly responsible, is precisely why Network Rail have such heavy penalties for other companies causing problems on their assets.
    I'm not assuming anything, we know that all private companies are motivated by profit, you even say so yourself but for some reason the moment we apply that to safety you deny that's what they're motivated by, hence why i believe that you're arguing for the sake of arguing (aka:trolling), and no, it's not in their best interest to keep people safe if it harms profits, if it harms profits it's in their best interest not to get caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Oh, do we not have any minimum safety standards, then?
    We do?
    So why aren't these evil private profit-governed companies adhering to them?
    Who is inspecting their work and checking their materials?
    Who is verifying all this?
    Who is responsible?
    Yea defiantly trolling, you have refused to answer any of the questions i posed throughout our conversations and now you expect me to answer your questions? How gullible do think i am, and no i don't expect an answer to that as it's a rhetorical question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    The manufacturer, now?
    So not the construction company, the building inspector, the industry regulators, or even the local government have that responsibility?

    As for your safety standards, the article also highlights just how few people in the construction industry (public, private and varying degrees of profit) are even being made aware of these regulations, as well as how there is no complete consensus on what the regs should actually be in the first place.

    So yeah, get in a nice profit-driven engineering company and pay them to figure out once and for all what the flippin' safety standards are, govern the methods of communication and ensure EVERYONE is fully aware of current regulations. This means a very heavy buck stops with them and such responsibility will mean a large price... but conversely the large price also means that when the fertiliser hits the ventialtor, it's their ventilator it ultimately hits!
    Ermm, No, IIRC i said "that has nothing to do the prescriptive regulation because those were flouted throughout the refurbishment."

    You'll notice there is no mention of manufacturer, the construction company, the building inspector, the industry regulators, or even the local government, those are words you've put into my mouth, perhaps you should leave the logical fallacies at the door.
    Last edited by Corky34; 24-05-2018 at 03:35 PM.

  12. #92
    RGB Champion Ttaskmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    4,294
    Thanks
    138
    Thanked
    457 times in 381 posts
    • Ttaskmaster's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X99-PRO
      • CPU:
      • i7 5960X o/c to 4.summat
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Corsair DDR4 somethingorother
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Evo 120GB and Seagate Baracuda 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte G1 GTX980Ti
      • PSU:
      • EVGA Supernova G2 1000W
      • Case:
      • Phankecks Enthoo Luxe perspex window
      • Operating System:
      • Win10 64 Home
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer Predator XB270HU 1440 IPS GSync
      • Internet:
      • BT 0.7Mbps 'In The Sticks' version

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    we know that all companies are motivated by profit
    FTFY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    but for some reason the moment we apply that to safety you deny that's what they're motivated by
    I don't believe I'm actually denying that motivation... feel free to go check the thread, though.
    It is a primary factor, which most other factors inform, while also by which they are governed and limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    i believe that you're arguing for the sake of arguing (aka:trolling),
    In this particular sentence I might be arguing just because, in part, but trolling is specifically sowing dischord by deliberately making provocative posts for the intentional purpose of causing such.
    In truth, I'm just discussing the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    and no, it's not in their best interest to keep people safe if it harms profits, if it harms profits it's in their best interest not to get caught.
    So why bother 'doing the right thing' and keeping people safe in the first place?
    You've already said companies put prices on peoples' lives, merely remarking, "Having said that it's also disingenuous of the establishment (government, politicians) to pretend that's not the case".... but are seemingly upset when these nasty, evil profit-making private companies do exactly that without really denying it either....

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Yea defiantly trolling,
    Report me to the mods, then. Defiantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    How gullible do think i am, and no i don't expect an answer to that as it what a rhetorical question.
    As was my series of them, but never mind....

    OK, the answers to all your questions in this thread...

    if cladding may be safe to use in appropriate situations or under certain installation conditions then why are we not saying what those situations and conditions are instead of saying what they're not?
    We are.
    Even if we're only saying what they're not, everything else that isn't a 'not' would thus be permissible.... which is often what happens, until something happens to demonstrate that it wasn't/shouldn't have been. Hindsight is 20-20, as they say.
    The question you need to ask is why we're not doing more to enforce compliance, punish non-compliance and persuade adherence in the first place.... And the answer to that is usually a complex combination centred around lacking funding and resources. Seems even the lawmakers are money-driven!

    Should we be living and working in buildings more akin to some third-world countries?
    Perhaps. It'd make a lot of things simpler....

    And yet Grenfell stands as an example of what can happen when we leave safety to organisations motivated by profit, so what solution would you propose?
    A national census of the entire population. Everyone should decide. No-one gets paid, they should do it freely. Maybe we could refuse them a place to live until they decide what their idea of safety is, or something, but we will need some kind of non-financial motivation to make everyone decide... Then we gather a volunteer force of admin workers to collate the information, devise a methodology for averaging out the opinions, whittle it down to a single standard as the mimim,um acceptable safety requirements, and then type it up into a legislation document that the government can pass around for signatures next time they meet.
    This will then be enforced by a volunteer inspection force, similar to Special Constables but more like Trading Standards.
    Nice and not driven by profit at all...

    Or we could just clamp down on the regs, a bit like we're currently doing.

    So you expect companies you admit flouted standards because they wanted to do it as cheap as possible to spend the money needed to "innovate" so they can do safety cheaper? Do you not see the contradiction in that?
    Irony, yes, Contradiction, no.
    Less money spent here, means more money for innovation in safer products, which will sell better and make more money in the end. It's fairly sound and standard investment as part of a holistic financial strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    You'll notice there is no mention of manufacturer, the construction company, the building inspector, the industry regulators, or even the local government, those are words you've put into my mouth, perhaps you should leave the logical fallacies at the door.
    The only people to have actually flouted any regulations, as illustrated by that particular article, seems to be the manufacturer. It stands to reason then that you're blaming them, since they're the only ones. Everyone else was either misinformed or uninformed. Can't flout it if you don't know about it... by the very definition.

    Oh, and stuff the 'logical fallacies' pretense - Half of what happened is a failure of logic and reasoning. This is not a thread about the art of discourse. If it were, you'd be better off arguing that of the people responsible for this.

  13. #93
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    2,793
    Thanks
    66
    Thanked
    143 times in 109 posts
    • Butcher's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI Z97 Gaming 3
      • CPU:
      • i7-4790K
      • Memory:
      • 8 GB Corsair 1866 MHz
      • Storage:
      • 120GB SSD, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • Antec 650W
      • Case:
      • Big Black Cube!
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Ah... right.... You'd better tell that to Caunton Eng, then, before they spend too much of that £1m of your tax money the government gave them...!!
    Had a quick look at their website, couldn't see any steel bricks. Just normal steel beam construction projects. I'm not sure why you would make bricks out of steel when beams are a much better geometry for the material.

  14. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    282
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked
    19 times in 17 posts

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    It seems to me your objection is a political one, based on conversations. Do you have any references you can give to support this argument?

    Still waiting to hear more about the "changes to the crystalline structure of concrete" from a few posts back btw.
    I don't really have any objection to single or couples being given housing in these blocks(as long as they aware of; the narrow stairwell escape route which may become a chimney, the junkies on the eighth floor, the asbestos, the roaches and bedbugs). Each council have the majority of these types of properties with families in them, waiting for houses. Plus each council has a waiting list of between 10-20 thousand families waiting for a council places. I know it's the way of elections but each party claims they will build houses for everyone, but it never seems to happen.

    I think this aluminium facade is just that, cover up the real problem, the slums of Britain. I got involved because a woman in this community applied for some of the EU social fund. It came with conditions. When all but two of the new fifty social houses were given straight to recent African immigrants. I organised a meeting with the MP responsible for housing. I asked him why there was no fairness, and people who grew up in this community were being displaced to other areas, away from their friends and family.

    I think there was slightly more fairness with the next fifty build. I also talked to people on all sides, including tenants who tell me of concrete crumpling away and metal rods being exposed(I think there was a lot of variability over quality of concrete). But it's simply the problem that no one wants to face, we need houses. My idea, and there's been talk of a new city or garden city. I would have built a city for those from the more fundamentalist countries, modelled on what's important to their cultural life, cafes and the mosques(even down to their own style toilets). Rather than forcing them into generally white working class estates which has caused the backlash.

  15. #95
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    282
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked
    19 times in 17 posts

    Re: Cladding

    T>you see that's what I mean, why are you making a bizarre analogy with apples, It's Illogical. Also like I say, I believe a family needs a house and a safe environment. Our inner cities are now subject to massive amounts of air pollution, and the streets are becoming gang territories. In an area I lived in prior to here, I've seen police patrolling the streets holding automatic weapons(there were usually about 12 murders on that street a year).

    I don't see how empty office blocks will help, they are probably no more suitable than out of date blocks. Are you against the people of this country having a basic requirement, a safe home? Are you against the UK investing in houses(and a faster broadband system) to take us into the 21 century properly? When I reference the financial housing market, I do mean what you say, but it's also a general comment, the reason everyone who owns a home is better off, is because of the high demand. Plus no one want thousands of new houses tacked on to their backyard or city.

  16. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,450
    Thanks
    288
    Thanked
    295 times in 206 posts

    Re: Cladding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Some stuff i didn't bother reading.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •