Cladding

[Disturbedguy]

ik9000>look I've told you I just don't bother with you posts and a few others. Any content is buried in all this; calling people liars, passive aggressive nonsense, pedantic nonsense,spin, point scoring, you get the point. I'm not going to wade through all that just to find some whatever. But you and your buddies have fun yattering.

No, you're just a clown, it's that simple.

You wilfully ignore anything someone says that doesn't suit your narrative, then claim they aren't staying on topic while you continue to ignore questions that are being asked. Wade through? If you'd actually been reading the posts and understanding them, then you'd be answering the questions. At this point I'd say you're not actually reading what people say if it isn't on your agenda and to an extent, you're trolling.

Have you ever thought that the problems you have had on other forums, are you and not the forums you're on?

[ik9000]

ik9000>look I've told you I just don't bother with you posts and a few others. Any content is buried in all this; calling people liars, passive aggressive nonsense, pedantic nonsense,spin, point scoring, you get the point. I'm not going to wade through all that just to find some whatever. But you and your buddies have fun yattering.

ROFL. Oh my. Grow up. It smacks of the kid who takes his ball inside because the other children can play football better than him. What's the matter? Don't like being shown to not know what you're on about? We've given you enough chances to show us otherwise, but no, you're too immature to do that.

Btw the only people who've called anyone liars is you. That and saddo, master debaters and the like. You really are the most bizarre person I've ever encountered on this forum. You seem to project your defects onto others, all the while thinking you're God's gift. It really is most intriguing. It almost makes me want to take a course in psychology just to try and diagnose you.


Anyway, yet another request to answer those outstanding questions. Go on, you know you want to! After all, you're so well read, surely you've found an answer by now right?

[peterb]

I really don't like the tone of some of the posts in this thread...

Closed for review.

[ik9000]

So, picking up the sensible remains of this rather de-railed Grenfell cladding thread, please keep it on topic people...

Here is a good example of what should happen with a fire in a modern apartment building:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/battersea-...122100663.html

there is a video on the EStandard's website which annoyingly I can't find a link to embed directly:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a3873541.html

Outcome: No real fire spread beyond the immediate location. Just as it should be.

NB that appears to be a modern cladding system, almost certainly containing insulated foam etc. So a good example of why the call to simply ban foam insulation in cladding systems as originally mooted early on in this thread is knee-jerk and perhaps unnecessary.

If that system has a superior foam vs grenfell (or rather if Grenfell had a particularly sub-standard foam), then perhaps that is all the clarification that is needed - ie. prescribing what foam or foam performance is suitable in a given use case and making that part of the relevant building regulations approved documentation. Though tbh I thought that kind of provision was already in there[/QUOTE]

[Top_gun]

The original Grenfell Tower block was probably fire resistant until the recent refurbishments made it into a death trap.

[spacein_vader]

The original Grenfell Tower block was probably fire resistant until the recent refurbishments made it into a death trap.

It certainly was when it was bare concrete, that would contain the fire within the original flat for much longer, probably long enough for the fire service to extinguish it.

[Top_gun]

It certainly was when it was bare concrete, that would contain the fire within the original flat for much longer, probably long enough for the fire service to extinguish it.

Also replacing the fire doors with ineffective ones. And the sheer lunacy in running the gas mains through the ONLY fire escape stairwell.

[Corky34]

And the sheer lunacy in running the gas mains through the ONLY fire escape stairwell.

That's not lunacy as the building was designed that way and had more than sufficient fire protection surrounding the six gas risers, it was modifications to the risers in 2016 that breached those protections, basically they made what was a safe system of fire protections into an unsafe system.

[Top_gun]

That's not lunacy as the building was designed that way and had more than sufficient fire protection surrounding the six gas risers, it was modifications to the risers in 2016 that breached those protections, basically they made what was a safe system of fire protections into an unsafe system.

Well a resident from Grenfell Tower had said otherwise:

"Gas pipes should never have been installed in these crucial fire safety zones in which no combustible material should have been allowed."

Source <Grenfell Action Group>

[Corky34]

No they haven't, they say the same thing.

Finally, the Grenfell Tower refurbishment was completed in May 2016, but that’s not the end of the story. Some months later a fire safety consultant for Kensington and Chelsea Council approved the installation of new gas risers and pipes in landings and stairways following a gas leak, but only if they were clad in “fire-rated” boxing. Sacha Jevans, Director of Operations at the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation, said that the National Grid assured the Council on 27 March 2017 that the pipes would be protected, but two-thirds of the horizontal pipes were still exposed when the disaster happened on 14th June. The works were originally undertaken by the National Grid’s gas distribution arm. In March, the firm was sold to a consortium, that included the Qatari government, and renamed Cadent Gas. Cadent said the ‘work was still ongoing to box in the horizontal pipes’ when the fire occurred. Gas pipes should never have been installed in these crucial fire safety zones in which no combustible material should have been allowed.

They clearly say it was the new modifications to the risers and associated pipework that was still exposed, not that it was sheer lunacy to run gas mains through the ONLY fire escape stairwell.

[Butcher]

Surprised no one mentioned the recent Mile End tower block fire: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44659081

An example of what happens when the designed in fire safety hasn't been compromised.

[peterb]

Surprised no one mentioned the recent Mile End tower block fire: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44659081

An example of what happens when the designed in fire safety hasn't been compromised.

Well "Tower Block Fire safety design works as intended - no one injured" is hardly headline grabbing news.

</cynicism>

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think the thread has ended up with an excess of cladding!!

[Ttaskmaster]

I think the thread has ended up with an excess of cladding!!

Burn it down....?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Burn it down....?

[Top_gun]

No they haven't, they say the same thing.

They clearly say it was the new modifications to the risers and associated pipework that was still exposed, not that it was sheer lunacy to run gas mains through the ONLY fire escape stairwell.

I'm afraid there's no mention of the word modifications in the supplied article. To add it in is tad misleading, don't you think?

Okay, so you saying it's not sheer lunacy to run a mains gas pipe through the ONLY means of escaping a fire?

Finally, the Grenfell Tower refurbishment was completed in May 2016, but that’s not the end of the story. Some months later a fire safety consultant for Kensington and Chelsea Council approved the installation of new gas risers and pipes in landings and stairways following a gas leak, but only if they were clad in “fire-rated” boxing. Sacha Jevans, Director of Operations at the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation, said that the National Grid assured the Council on 27 March 2017 that the pipes would be protected, but two-thirds of the horizontal pipes were still exposed when the disaster happened on 14th June. The works were originally undertaken by the National Grid’s gas distribution arm. In March, the firm was sold to a consortium, that included the Qatari government, and renamed Cadent Gas. Cadent said the ‘work was still ongoing to box in the horizontal pipes’ when the fire occurred. Gas pipes should never have been installed in these crucial fire safety zones in which no combustible material should have been allowed.