I eventually want to open up a food business, but

[wazzickle]

Stuff like this really worries me. I'm not as dumb as he is to think $60k gets you a seat at the table, but then again, there's lots of ways I'm sure he would outshine me in a food business environment.

https://torontolife.com/food/restaurant-ruined-life/

Cliffs: yeah, he really does try to open a fine dining restaurant in a bad part of Toronto on $60k, liquidates his pension and sells his house in order to keep it going, and still winds up in a ton of debt and no restaurant and is firmly flung off the housing ladder.

[jimbouk]

Start smaller, and have a second income to pay the bills! A friends partner is doing this, local catering and market stalls. Could it become a restaurant? No, but it could become a bakery / cafe if it keeps going. At that stage though you do need capital...

One way to determine whether a business idea is viable is to try and get a loan from the bank for it. If you can't convince them then it can't be all bad...

[Flibb]

A local businessman bought the old fire station in tonbridge, he has turned the top floors in to offices and meeting rooms, the ground floor is used as a popup venue, mainly restaurants and bars. It's worked incredibly well with 3 new places to eat and drink opening in the town, all of which ran as a popup first. There is a permanent coffee shop running 8-4, 7 days a week, the. The couple that run the coffee place worked 100 days without a break, they did all the cleaning, coffee making, etc.

The bloke in the article liked cooking then employed loads of staff to do the work.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[scaryjim]

... Cliffs: yeah, he really does try to open a fine dining restaurant in a bad part of Toronto on $60k, liquidates his pension and sells his house in order to keep it going, and still winds up in a ton of debt and no restaurant and is firmly flung off the housing ladder.

So learn from his mistakes!

Don't make your entire income reliant on it. Don't assume people will go out of their way just to visit your establishment. Make sure you cost everything properly and have enough capital. Make sure you already have a good reputation amongst the people local to your site so you can rely on some business. Butter up the local foodie press. Hand out freebie vouchers to critics. Put *everything* on special offer during opening week.

And most importantly: DON'T LEASE YOUR PROPERTY and DON'T ACCEPT ANY EXISTING EQUIPMENT. That was the biggest mistake there (although his mate really stiffed him on that property deal). You pay for existing equipment you'll be paying again to replace it within a year, most likely.

Basically, that guy sounds like an idiot. He did pretty much everything wrong. Don't be that guy

[directhex]

Most new restaurants fail. Full stop. Don't stake your wellbeing - house, etc - on success

[pp05]

Most new restaurants fail. Full stop. Don't stake your wellbeing - house, etc - on success

Ditto. Many restaurants don't make it past 18 months.

That's not to say your would fail too, but you do need big pockets until you become established.

[TeePee]

He'd probably have been happier and more successful running a food truck. And he would have been able to afford to get started, too!

Look at starting at a street market. If you can make that a success, and make a profit, then consider a restaurant!

[TooNice]

If I think of success stories I know about (have seen happen), they often starts small, with something that can be made in front of the customer, have good social skills to make the customer interested and happy, which tends to lead to repeat business and word of mouth. In social media dominated society, having the right people rave about the place can result in massive queues. And after a few years of really hard work, they may expend and start offloading the work.

Though I know at least one very liked chef who did great starting in a local market, expended the space as much as possible due to the success, and eventually opened a proper restaurant and said that despite getting good reviews, it wasn't all that more profitable because of the overhead (but also location; the local market was right in the middle of the high street while the restaurant was still in the city center, but a bit off the high street).

[wazzickle]

Yeah, my plan was always to start small with a food market and work my way up to a shop; I would guess most new fine dining restaurants (at least the successful ones) need bundles of money, an experienced restaurauteur/businessman, a great chef, and plenty of patience. Tolstoys' 'happy families principle' - that successful ventures have lots in common, unsuccessful ones have little in common (or in other words, there are many ways in which a system can break down, so you need to have every aspect covered at least well-enough) applies here.

[Zak33]

so wazzickle... what's the plan ?

what and where and when and how? Spill it... share the dream!

[TeePee]

so wazzickle... what's the plan ?

what and where and when and how? Spill it... share the dream!

This.

Also, what kind of food? Can we get a sample recipe?

[wazzickle]

Sandwiches. Name of 'Mike Sandwich' - not really happy to give away my 'niche' (read: gimmick) that will play some part in defining my branding and market, but I'm hoping to do something very different from a sandwich bar, more like a nice coffee place that does food but specialises in sandwich.

Most sandwiches will be veggie, one sandwich available each day that will be meaty - one for example will be grilled pears & chorizo with blue cheese & marinaded rocket on walnut bread. The recipe for the above is obviously quite complicated but I'll try to break it down here: grill pears & chorizo, throw in some blue cheese, marinade rocket, bake walnut bread.

I'm guessing (hoping) you're all hungry now.

In terms of where, likely somewhere like Frome, Somerset (about 30 minutes south of Bath). In terms of when, if I can get a market stall going in 2018 and then open up a shop in 2019 I'll be happy.

[TeePee]

Sandwiches. Name of 'Mike Sandwich' - not really happy to give away my 'niche' (read: gimmick) that will play some part in defining my branding and market, but I'm hoping to do something very different from a sandwich bar, more like a nice coffee place that does food but specialises in sandwich.

Most sandwiches will be veggie, one sandwich available each day that will be meaty - one for example will be grilled pears & chorizo with blue cheese & marinaded rocket on walnut bread. The recipe for the above is obviously quite complicated but I'll try to break it down here: grill pears & chorizo, throw in some blue cheese, marinade rocket, bake walnut bread.

I'm guessing (hoping) you're all hungry now.

In terms of where, likely somewhere like Frome, Somerset (about 30 minutes south of Bath). In terms of when, if I can get a market stall going in 2018 and then open up a shop in 2019 I'll be happy.

Sounds interesting. I do worry that you may be setting yourself up for potential failure with the meat issue. Veggies won't go because you aren't pure vegetarian, and normal people will have a very limited choice.

[peterb]

How much catering experience do you have?

Just a couple of points, walnut bread OK and tasty, but that immediately shuts out anyone with nut allergies (although preparing food that you can certify nut free is a whole complex subject itself). Wet food in sandwiches needs to have something to seal the bread - butter is the traditional method, but that might not be suitable for veggies, so you are looking at some sort of fat spread. Your food prep area will be subject to inspection by envronmental health, as a minimum you probably need food handler level 2. Sotarage facilities and so on and if you are cooking ingredients fresh at the stall, heat sources, washing facilities and so on.

[Zak33]

Sandwiches. Name of 'Mike Sandwich' - not really happy to give away my 'niche' (read: gimmick) that will play some part in defining my branding and market, but I'm hoping to do something very different from a sandwich bar, more like a nice coffee place that does food but specialises in sandwich.

Most sandwiches will be veggie, one sandwich available each day that will be meaty - one for example will be grilled pears & chorizo with blue cheese & marinaded rocket on walnut bread. The recipe for the above is obviously quite complicated but I'll try to break it down here: grill pears & chorizo, throw in some blue cheese, marinade rocket, bake walnut bread.

I'm guessing (hoping) you're all hungry now.

In terms of where, likely somewhere like Frome, Somerset (about 30 minutes south of Bath). In terms of when, if I can get a market stall going in 2018 and then open up a shop in 2019 I'll be happy.

now THAT is the start of an idea... a basis...

that's what I was looking for,

Now... you need to budget about £1000 for testing ALL the opposition. And I mean that in utter sincerity.

Use Trip Advisor, look for the competition and try them all, many times.

Make good notes... not just on food, but the clientelle level, the staff attitude etc

you CANNOT research too much my dear chap.

I know a reasonably succesfull cafe owner, and i watched from the start. I saw the failings, and the wins. My missus helped her with recipes, ingredients and hygiene. But the win... the perfect storm was when she got the visit from the local business training place who were let down by someone else for lunch and they needed her... and as with all great businesses, you cant predict where your revenue will evenutally come from. She makes more money no delivering business lunches than from the cafe....

[flearider]

be different .. and make your food good not expensive keep costs low = win