Famous-person etiquette

[sammyc]

If you were to sell an item on ebay to a person who though not wildly famous, is known to yourself.. and if their details didn't make it blatantly obvious, but nor did they use aliases/ebay-specific email addresses etc.. and they didn't draw attention to their being 'the' somebody-something (but then again you sort of wouldn't, really).. then would you make it known that you know who they are?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Address it to "Dave",wink! wink!??

[Saracen]

If you were to sell an item on ebay to a person who though not wildly famous, is known to yourself.. and if their details didn't make it blatantly obvious, but nor did they use aliases/ebay-specific email addresses etc.. and they didn't draw attention to their being 'the' somebody-something (but then again you sort of wouldn't, really).. then would you make it known that you know who they are?

No.

Personally, I find it refreshing when 'celebs' try to ignore it and behave as normsl people. And I oblige.

Again, personally, I find celebs generally fall into two categories :-

- those who want to be noticed,
- those who genuinely don't like celeb status.

For group 1, nothing winds 'em up like not being noticed, and I'm delighted to not "notice".

Others, and it's a surprisingly large group, don't like the celeb lifestyle and just want to be left alone. And I respect that.

My favourite is when a wannabe celeb asks some variation of "maybe you've heard of me?". I always answer something like "Sorry, no. Should I have?" even if I have.

The look of wounded ego is priceless.

I am not a fan of fame.

[TheAnimus]

Yup the only famous people I know don't like to be thought of by complete strangers as someone they know, after all that is their work.

[sammyc]

Hmm. I'll try & qualify a bit. Let's say I don't mean famous like celebrity like actor like sportsman like singer. Let's say I'm in some sort of arty business, and an artist buys something from me - or a photographer buys a camera from me - using their own distinctive/recognizable id & details, therefore closer to Saracen's category B (by not making any effort to disguise themselves). So, not talking celeb in the classic sense of 'ooh it's you, innit? I thought so!'.

My point is, you & Joe Public probably may not know them, but given the kind of stuff I deal in (hypothetically), it would be likely slash highly likely I would know of them and they would know that. They may or may not care, or want me to fawn over their work, and I don't really care if they want me to either - BUT - by saying nothing, wouldn't you feel like you were weirdly feigning ignorance? Wouldn't you also think their using their own details means they can't badly want anonymity? To give another parallel - instead of being like an actor who perhaps doesn't like to engage with the public & give autographs, it would be more similar to a sculptor who posts their work on instagram & presumably likes people admiring & commenting. Is it different to say 'I know of & admire your sculptures' whilst selling someone something, than to go on Instagram & say so as a follower..?

Incidentally too late now, as I'd already tastefully & briefly indicated my knowledge of them by the time I asked, so if I've offended 'em, I've offended 'em. I'm not talking about trying to be overfamiliar & crossing their personal/work boundaries, like accosting someone trying to shop quietly in M&S. But maybe saying nothing may have been appropriate - ah well.

I've had this before, more than once, but it's either been impossible to ignore (ie have met them in person or they've brought it up themselves) - or I do know, but it's quite possible I wouldn't, so it's not an issue - this was such a borderline case.

[Saracen]

I think I see what you're getting at.

Okay, two little stories.

A good many years ago, in the days when the internet was a baby and a service called CIX was quite prominent among the online cogniscenti (which was a tiny proportion of people) and connectivity was dialup, via modem, I "met" a guy online whose name I knew, as a well-known author. I asked him outright if he was that person of that name, asnd he said yes. I said thanks for the great books, I love them. And we then proceeded to "chat", on and off, for years but rarely did books ever come up again. I wouldn't claim him as a friend, exactly. It was less formal than that. But a mutually respectful acquaintance, whose time I never presumed on, or took for granted.

The author? Terry Pratchett, a genuinely really nice guy. RIP.

Something he said, indirectly and in passing, several years after we first spoke, suggested that he continued to converse because, despite me knowing who he was and him knowing I did, I never made much of it. He seemed to appreciate neither being taken for granted, nor fawned over.

Second story. About 20 years ago, on a JFK to Heathrow flight, I found myself seated directly in front, by one row, of an extremely well-known musician. This was in first class, but this celeb was not just A-list, but at or very near the top of it, snd my surprise was that he was flying scheduled at all, not private jet. Anyway, on my way back from a leg-stretch, as I sat down, I leaned over and said something like "You are xxxxx, aren't you?" and was told yes. I said "Just wanted to say I'm a big fan, love the music, thanks for years of pleasure. Now I'll leave you alone". Or words to that effect.

About 4 hours later, as I deplaned, a man-mountain that I'd assumed (correctly) to be personal security, tapped me on the shoulder and said "xxxxx appreciated both your thanks and discretion, and hopes you'll find these useful", giving me an envelope with a couple of complimentary tickets for an up-coming event, and a backstage invite.

These were two very different individuals, with Terry being pretty reserved, and xxxxx being .... ummm, pretty extrovert. But BOTH found fame to be something of a pain in the butt. On the other hand, both 'artists' appreciated a genuine love of their work and the thanks for it, and giving them the courtesy of a brief but normal reaction and not a fawning over or bring a pest. And, not asking for anything, including autographs.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that most people really like their work to be appreciated, so it probably wouldn't hurt to communicate that, but my approach would be to do it in a calm, almost detached way.

In other words, I thanked them for their work and the pleasure I derived from it without making an issue of celebrity. I just treated them as people, not celebs. And if I hadn't genuinely loved both Terry's books and xxxxx's music, I'd never have bothered to confirm they were who they were. I'd have chatted to Terry as if I hadn't known who he was, and wouldn't have said anything at all to xxxxx.

[Pob255]

Interesting name drop there Saracen, I say that as I was in a hotel bar at Bristol comic con back in 2004ish as was Terry Pratchett, I didn't "meet" him as I didn't want to go over and disturb him or his group.

Although interestingly I have meet many different uk&us comics names in bars/pubs often happily chatting and drinking only to find out who they where later.
And most times when I've met them again it's been just like meeting any friend.

I did manage to slightly freak out Chynna Clugston (creator of Blue Monday) by fanboying at her, I was excited to meet her, however I realised I was freaking her out a bit so backed off.
Later on I apologised to her and we had a far more friendly, and less fanboyish on myside, chat.

I think a lot of it does depend on the "famous" person and their attitude toward fame.

I'd say my main advice would be don't be an obsessive fan, treat them as a person.

[sammyc]

As far dealing with the well-known goes - couldn't agree more - the most recent instance I had of selling in person to a high-ish profiler went as follows - them: buy item, me: assume they know I know, say nothing at that point: meet up: shake hands, exchange pleasantries, discuss sale, briefly touch on their profession as it arose, end of. No autographs no big deal made - it wasn't someone from a field of particular interest to me, so that just left the celeb-ness in itself (not really bothered) & them as a person (very nice chap). In the event they may have preferred a bit of lionizing, but there we are.

I have never approached anyone famous and I *think* if I had crossed paths with TP online I may have skirted around the subject unless it came up. However IF he was well-enough known then for it to be very likely the name would mean something, then I'd at least feel safe concluding that if I asked, he at worst, wouldn't mind. Ie if he were to shop online & give an email terrypratchettthewriter, then unless he was naive about his level of fame or assumed no-one would dream of accosting him mid-ebay-transaction , it was a conscious decision not to give an alias. That's what I was hoping with my customer.

Part of my wavering was because we ended up with a crossed-message thing which I needed to sort out promptly, or I'd've given it more thought, & maybe would have said nothing. My thinking was that I would feel/seem odd blanking the subject, whereas of course it's much more likely it would have been taken for tactfulness. On even further reflection, I also know if they had been household-name famous, I wouldn't have said anything; so I'm actually not sure why I did for moderately-well-known-but-not-outside-their-field.

But I guess I stand by my reasoning, as above, that if they had not wanted to be clocked, they could just fudge their details. And I certainly followed your 'cool calm nod to subject & say no more' model.

Thanks for the instances of people not taking offence if done with restraint and of course - good stories.

(Also there's an awful lot of 'he knows that I know that he knows' in this post, & I've confused myself, so well done if you follow the half of it.)

[Saracen]

I can't see anything at all wrong with your reasoning, Ssmmy. Nor can I see anything wrong, in the situation yiu describe, with either not mentioning that you know who he is, or mentioning it but not fawning. Either, to my mind, is fine.

I've met a fair few celebs over the years, and to me, they break down into those two groups I mentioned. There's those who positively covet celebrity status, including those who are famous for being famous and not much else. Frankly, I give them a wide berth.

Then there's those famous because they do something high profile exceptionally well. I don't think I've met one in that group yet that really enjoys fame, or at least, not after the initial novelty has worn off. To most, the celebrity life is at best something they have to endure, the price they have to pay, and to others it's a life-wrecking trauma that they detest. It's also the direct cause of a fair few effectively withdrawing and giving up whatever it was they were doing that made them celebs.

So my view is that it can be a very tender spot, so I either don't touch it at all, or do so pretty gently, and briefly, and leave the poor so-and-so's in peace.

[Pob255]

Slight side story, not me so I cannot guaranty authenticity, a friend of mine saw Robbie Williams trying, badly, to be inconspicuous at a gig, band playing was mesh, he said there was only one good course of action, insult him to his face. There is more to that story, apparently RW was being a bit of a dick and my friend wasn't the only one who didn't take well to it.

Generally I've found with comic book creators and musicians they like to talk about the craft and the people and work they like, but not so much about their own work.
Some artist (ie in the art sense not the music or commercial sense) can be very self promoting when you talk to them and often I've found them to be the least talented in my opinion.
Although I've not met any big mainstream people.

[Ttaskmaster]

Speaking as someone in the 'smoking/vaping' camp who, as a result, has an awful lot of run-ins with an awful lot of notable and/or well-known members primarily of the TV and film industry, especially actors... at times when they've not necessarily got their Public Face on:

If you're at a show event or something, that's usually what they're present for, to talk about their work and meet their gushing fans, so they're prepared for it and in the right mindset (with the occasional exception of a few who really don't want to be there, but are contractually obliged to).
Outside of that, they are merely normal, random people, just like your builder or your joiner. You wouldn't go up to a brickie or an electrician and start gushing over their work, would you? Whatever this artist or artiste has done, that is their work. Fame is simply a side effect of that and who they are is not often in any way represented by their work, nor does their work give you licence to treat them like gods.

Paraphrasing some famous actor (Gielgud, or might have been Anthony Hopkins) responding to the "Aren't you..." approach of an intruding autograph hunter - "Only when I'm working".
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[peterb]

You wouldn't go up to a brickie or an electrician and start gushing over their work, would you?

I might, if they had done a particularly good or difficult installation or brickwork. Most people likes to have their work admired or at least appreciated.

[sammyc]

Speaking as someone in the 'smoking/vaping' camp who, as a result, has an awful lot of run-ins with an awful lot of notable and/or well-known members primarily of the TV and film industry, especially actors... at times when they've not necessarily got their Public Face on:

If you're at a show event or something, that's usually what they're present for, to talk about their work and meet their gushing fans, so they're prepared for it and in the right mindset (with the occasional exception of a few who really don't want to be there, but are contractually obliged to).
Outside of that, they are merely normal, random people, just like your builder or your joiner. You wouldn't go up to a brickie or an electrician and start gushing over their work, would you? Whatever this artist or artiste has done, that is their work. Fame is simply a side effect of that and who they are is not often in any way represented by their work, nor does their work give you licence to treat them like gods.

Paraphrasing some famous actor (Gielgud, or might have been Anthony Hopkins) responding to the "Aren't you..." approach of an intruding autograph hunter - "Only when I'm working".
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

In person examples are different though. Take Gielgud, it's one thing to say would you gush if you found yourself sitting opposite him in a cafe - because the 'are you the John Gielgud' is already a given by him being there in front of you. Unless you have no idea who he is of course, in which case, there still wouldn't be the element of 'are you THE'. (Plus he would be a bit ghostly, but let's go with the example.)

Different if a John Gielgud replied to your post on here in sales & wanted, & you had to decide whether to treat it as if you had no idea who he was. There's no "go up to and.." bit, as they would have done the approaching. As I say, I wouldn't personally approach a well-known face, from pop stars to presidents, in fact detest the entitled 'want/expect a photograph' idea, & the panning people get for refusing. Totally & utterly refute the idea that fame comes with that price &c and that personal contact is deserved because you've 'made someone who they are" etc. No, you paid some money & you got a cd, or whatever. End of obligation imo.

[Ttaskmaster]

I might, if they had done a particularly good or difficult installation or brickwork. Mostpeople likes to have their work admired or at least appreciated.

What, just randomly, completely out of the blue? Would you ask him to autograph a brick, too?

because the 'are you the John Gielgud' is already a given by him being there in front of you.

Never understood the in-person 'Are You' thing, since both parties know darn well they are...

There's no "go up to and.." bit, as they would have done the approaching.

Similarly, there's no deciding to pretend you don't know him, as he's not here to be admired. He's here to buy your stuff, end of. No different to if you work in the local corner shop and he comes in to buy some milk and bread.

Totally & utterly refute the idea that fame comes with that price &c and that personal contact is deserved because you've 'made someone who they are" etc. No, you paid some money & you got a cd, or whatever. End of obligation imo.

I agree there is no such obligation, particularly when people think actors will be just like their characters... Given that an actors job is to portray someone else, they'd not be very good if they were the same, eh.
But fame is the price of film makers and musicians and poets and artists, because people have such a personal connection to their work. What people have to do is separate the work from the artist and stop overinflating the fame aspect - The price is too high.

[sammyc]

Never understood the in-person 'Are You' thing, since both parties know darn well they are...

At the top of the fame tree maybe, or if your face is unmistakable, but you do hear tales of x saying someone asked for their autograph thinking they were y - I suppose people want to cover themselves against being wrong - and 'You Are' sounds ludicrous, but yes, 'Are You' is actually just as daft when you think about it (and an invitation to sarcasm).

Similarly, there's no deciding to pretend you don't know him, as he's not here to be admired. He's here to buy your stuff, end of. No different to if you work in the local corner shop and he comes in to buy some milk and bread.

Oh, indeed. Not for the first time, my thread title isn't the best, fame is relative & too strong a word really. Example would be someone here selling to a gaming developer, or writer of articles that would be in publications, inventor of some key bits of specialist tech - people outside tech wouldn't know them, & certainly not pub quiz famous, but maybe with a modest following in the business. I don't know *my* person except by work & name, not by face even, but I doubt you would know them at all unless it was your 'thing'. In the same way I can't even give you a good example of a tech person, because I wouldn't know one - you could say a name, and may be surprised it'd draw a blank with me. Theoretically such a bod might be pleasantly surprised to find you know their work on <techie thing> and not mind some modest recognition/appreciation.

Anyway as far as fawning over a celeb or ingratiating myself with a brickie goes - given the long list of building work I need doing - I'd push the celeb aside to get to a good brickie, no contest.

[Ttaskmaster]

Anyway as far as fawning over a celeb or ingratiating myself with a brickie goes - given the long list of building work I need doing - I'd push the celeb aside to get to a good brickie, no contest.

Why not have both?
I hear Robert "Vanilla Ice" van Winkle does a good line in home renovation work... might even get a discount if you agree to it being on his TV show!!