'Lifetime' means the 'useful life'

[AGTDenton]

Just reading this article on the beeb about how TomTom is discontinuing map updates for older models, but which probably function perfectly fine.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/42859546

There's no doubt that we live in a wasteful society and in general the consumer, the government nor the manufacturer wants to take or acknowledge responsibility of dead devices.

In this instance of TomTom discontinuing map updates, thereby making the devices less and less useful over time despite functioning, should they not be responsible for all the devices that they will no longer support by at least offering to collect & recycle those products?

A similar example exists with Bluray players, when the manufacturer decides to stop updating the firmware, over time a larger catalogue of newer discs can not be played, shouldnt they take some sort of responsibility, after all they discontinued it?

[BobF64]

In this instance of TomTom discontinuing map updates, thereby making the devices less and less useful over time despite functioning, should they not be responsible for all the devices that they will no longer support by at least offering to collect & recycle those products?

Does WEEE not cover this?

[Xlucine]

However, other TomTom sat-nav models available at various online retailers appear to be among those that the firm has said will cease to receive updates.

Product descriptions continue to state that maps on these devices will be refreshed multiple times a year "for the lifetime of your device".

On its website, TomTom explains that "lifetime" means the "useful life" of a device: "ie: the period of time TomTom supports your device with updates, services, content or accessories. A device will have reached the end of its life when none of these are available any more."

Updates will continue for the useful life, and the useful life ends when they stop providing updates?

[BobF64]

No one should reasonably expect an item to have a lifetime longer than the manufacturer deems appropriate, its just annoying that they can't or won't state it up front.

[scaryjim]

Updates will continue for the useful life, and the useful life ends when they stop providing updates?

Sounds about right. "These old units are stopping people buying our new, higher margin units, so they're not longer useful (to us)".

[Saracen]

No one should reasonably expect an item to have a lifetime longer than the manufacturer deems appropriate, its just annoying that they can't or won't state it up front.

Oh yes, you should. Courts have long held, in consumer law, that items should last a "reasonable" length of time, with "reasonable" depending on the circumstances of purchase, i.e. new/used, cheap or expensive, etc.

What doesn't wash is that a product's "life" is whatever the manufacturer deems.

However .... it's also unreasonable to expect a manufacturer to keep providing a service, for free, indefinitely.

What I'll bet most consumers don't realise, mainly because most don't read the warranty blurb, is that terms like "lifetime" are very often defined. It's often limited to original owner, often limited to x years after a model ceases to be current, etc. Or, sometimes, to when technology changes sufficiently that current data updates are incompatible.

In this case, the device, of course, will continue to work even after updates stop and in terms of roads, it'll only verly slowly go out of date,,and probably still be 99.9% useful 10 years after updates stop.


What I do find deceitful is that, IMHO, manufacturers go out of their way to use terms like "lifetime updates" knowing full well how all but the most cynical consumers like me) will read that, and incorrectly assume by it.

[Pob255]

What I do find deceitful is that, IMHO, manufacturers go out of their way to use terms like "lifetime updates" knowing full well how all but the most cynical consumers like me) will read that, and incorrectly assume by it.

Well it's hardly manufacturers that are solely to blame, it's common practice to use word and terms the general population think means one thing when in reality it ether means something else or nothing, it happens in near enough every business and especially in public relations, advertising and politics

[Saracen]

Well it's hardly manufacturers that are solely to blame, it's common practice to use word and terms the general population think means one thing when in reality it ether means something else or nothing, it happens in near enough every business and especially in public relations, advertising and politics

Indeed. But I would argue that manufacturers, and especially PR companies use such terms because they are deceptive. That is, because they know the average consumer will interpret them one way when, in fact, they can be interpreted in various ways, or have little specific semantic content at all.

And for pities sake, don't get me started on the subject of politicians. Or are you trying to give me a coronary?

[scaryjim]

... I would argue that manufacturers, and especially PR companies use such terms because they are deceptive. That is, because they know the average consumer will interpret them one way when, in fact, they can be interpreted in various ways, or have little specific semantic content at all. ...

We're in danger of merging with the "superfast" broadband thread here...

[mikerr]

I've been though this on several devices - it seems "reasonable lifetime" is generally 10 years. Certainly it becomes difficult to hold companies to warranty post 5 years...

[Smudger]

To be fair, they are offering a decent discount against a new one.

On the other hand, my Go 5000 that was £199 RRP when I got it (traded in my old XL and got it for £120) would be replaced by the Go 5200, with an RRP of £299...

There are differences of course, they come with International maps now, mine came with European. Speed camera updates are included now, £20/year on mine, but a man with no hands could count how many times I've been outside of Europe and taken my Sat Nav.

So, I wouldn't want to still be using a Go XL now, but I would be a bit miffed if the 'lifetime' maps on my current one were to end.

[Pob255]

We're in danger of merging with the "superfast" broadband thread here...

Of course, it's exactly the same thing.
For the exact same reasons, we assume a term/word/phrase means X when it actually means Y
It's made worse because so many of the terms used are simply buzz words made to make something sound better rather than a clear descriptive term.
It's always happened, for those who don't remember the beginning of broadband, 512Kbit/S (ie half meg) was call "10x connection!!" because 56k was the max for common standard modems, now we just get "superfast" to mean 24Mbit/S

This whole "Lifetime warranty" has been around before, in most of the electronics it translates to 10 years, but using "Lifetime" gives them more options and flexibility and sounds better.

Until we people stop just going with what look/sounds good on the outside and pay attention to the actual content and context it will keep going on.

[Pob255]

On the other hand, my Go 5000 that was £199 RRP when I got it (traded in my old XL and got it for £120) would be replaced by the Go 5200, with an RRP of £299...

umm the 5000 isn't on the list, just the 1000 and 1005
https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/obsolete-products/
The 1005 was from 2011 so 7 years old, not sure which ones from the list are newer or older but I think that's the newest one and the XL 2nd Edition is the oldest from 2008 making it 10 years old

[Smudger]

umm the 5000 isn't on the list, just the 1000 and 1005
https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/obsolete-products/
The 1005 was from 2011 so 7 years old, not sure which ones from the list are newer or older but I think that's the newest one and the XL 2nd Edition is the oldest from 2008 making it 10 years old

That's what I mean, my old one (the XL) is on the list, but I gave it up when I got the 5000. Also, it didn't come with free 'lifetime' map updates, like the 5100 did, so it's no great shock they're not supporting it any more. If they had included the 5000, I'd be a bit miffed, but for the age of it, amount of use it gets, and the speed of change of the roads, I could survive without updates for a while. My 'anger-o-meter' (c) me would not be off the scale. The bit I'd miss would be the speed camera updates, not cos I raz around like a boy racer, but because I find it handy when you're in a temporary average speed camera zone, to know what my average has been over the section.

I guess my point there was that they're making things obsolete, but the cost to replace with the modern equivalent is much higher. The 5000 came out in 2013, was £199. The 5200 came out in 2016, was £299. A 50% increase over 3 years.

[DanceswithUnix]

The 5200 came out in 2016, was £299. A 50% increase over 3 years.

How much??? A fine advert for running a Waze app on your phone if ever I saw one.

[badass]

What I do find deceitful is that, IMHO, manufacturers go out of their way to use terms like "lifetime updates" knowing full well how all but the most cynical consumers like me) will read that, and incorrectly assume by it.

And that needs to be challenged. It's very common. Before a device class is even created, a word has a certain specific meaning. New class of device comes out. Manufactures all abuse said word and de facto change its meaning because they all do it. Just look at HDD's. When convenient for marketing, capacities switched from binary based capacities to base10 ones because they were smaller for the same words. Now we have KiB, MiB etc for binary capacities.

It's not just words. It's expectations. When mobile phone batteries were removable, having a lifetime of 2 years or less is acceptable. Replace battery for a tenner and get another couple of years. When they aren't user replaceable, that is not acceptable. Except it is of course