Todays society - snowflakes

[spacein_vader]

I find it interesting that snowflakes tend to be described as the younger generation, quite often by the generation responsible for raising them.

[Biscuit]

Even going back 50 or a 100 years all sorts of movements started at universities going either way,so its not a new thing TBH.

However, I think one thing which is much more different is social media which is infecting younger people more and more. Even if the old skool internet existed when we were younger,it still was less persuasive than it is now,and the potential problems were there back then.

Also too many parents don't adminster technology well,so leave it to "distract" their children meaning it leads to issues like this:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/05/tech-a...nkies-6363567/

It also means children become nice little consumers influenced by companies and people with controversial ideologies, as it is easier to target marketing towards them more and more,and by extension that means other things too. Look at all the "fake news" feeds on social media,or horrible things like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing

This is why parents and the schooling system needs to ground people better,since the virtual world can be a drug,but ultimately the real world and real people needs to inform our decisions in the real world.

Amended

[Ttaskmaster]

When did basic civility become such a controversial concept?

When people took that inch of basic civility and began demanding a mile more.

Can we please agree that the modern progressive definitions relating to power and privilege (another word which is vastly misused and overused) that are peddled regarding sexism and racism are ridiculously short sighted and server no purpose but to divide society?

I agree - That's the whole premise of group identity politics.

I think as a society, we need to get better at listening to people on both sides of an argument rather than sticking a label on someone to shut them up and brush them under the rug.

We should also get better at not entertaining the arguments that have absolutely no substance or merit in the first place, to discourage others from jumping on that entitlement bandwagon.

Not only that, but we need to get used to sticking up for those who's opinions differ from our own when they wrongfully come under attack.

Some of us do, but that doesn't matter because we still offend and oppress people in other ways, y'see.

AFAIC, if someone has an opinion you don't like, you should challenge them on it, not brush them aside.

Sometimes.
Other times it really isn't appropriate, or even necessary.

Universities are there to give you specialist education to prepare you for a career.

Are they?
How many people regularly negotiate multi-million dollar business deals with the Klingons?
How often is the country saved from terrorism by someone's expertise on Quentin Tarrantino films?
Where the heck would you find a job that requires a Batchelors in David Beckham?

You see, far more children of today, compared to previous generations, are forced to attend university (whereas the previous gens were simply turned away or couldn't afford it) and they are oppressed into studying random degrees (presumably because the good ones like maths and physics are all full?) that benefit them nothing in the real world...

I get the impression from teachers I talked to,is that they cannot actually be honest about the little sprogs,in case they offend the parents

Friend of mine's girlfriend is a teacher and she says the exact same.
Some parents even ask her what she's doing to correct their errant child's behaviour in school, yet she's not allowed to tell them it's their job as parents to sort their flippin' kid out!!

[Ttaskmaster]

I mean FFS,people are sueing universities since they couldn't get a specific grade?? Really??

Yes really and how dare you ignore their very real and very genuine grievances!!
We must sit down in our nice safe space and legitimately discuss the matter in a sensible, sensitive fashion.... Or take my approach and just give EVERYONE what they think they're entitled to. Let the world collapse.

I find it interesting that snowflakes tend to be described as the younger generation, quite often by the generation responsible for raising them.

I don't have kids. This is by very careful, very deliberate design, for a very good reason.
I certainly have no responsibility to raise anyone else's, either.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Amended

Hence my "other things" comment. I was trying to be diplomatic!

[Macman]

Glad to see we are being civil and discussing this with an open mind!

[Hoonigan]

I read yesterday that people are kicking off cos there's an "image" of a woman on the handle of Tesco trolleys. Can't help but think they wouldn't be offended if they stayed at home and made my tea.

[Biscuit]

I read yesterday that people are kicking off cos there's an "image" of a woman on the handle of Tesco trolleys. Can't help but think they wouldn't be offended if they stayed at home and made my tea.

The one that I always remember that made me laugh was the "Air Conditioning is Sexist"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNH0bmYT7os

"I've got a cold that I blame all on the AC"

Perhaps you should go back to school...

"you have to put a jumper on just to function"

Boo bloody hoo

[Zak33]

I read yesterday that people are kicking off cos there's an "image" of a woman on the handle of Tesco trolleys. Can't help but think they wouldn't be offended if they stayed at home and made my tea.

you got this story wrong.



its an image of a person in a kilt, abducting hobbits USING a Tesco trolley, hence the very real, and genuine outcry.

Because we all KNOW that people in Kilts are only Mel Gibson's and THEY are no taller than a hobbit.

I really do struggle with you lot... you're all so..... melty... so... affected by your own trolley obsessed logo fetish's.

/leaves with his goat

[Lanky123]

Are they?
How many people regularly negotiate multi-million dollar business deals with the Klingons?
How often is the country saved from terrorism by someone's expertise on Quentin Tarrantino films?
Where the heck would you find a job that requires a Batchelors in David Beckham?

You see, far more children of today, compared to previous generations, are forced to attend university (whereas the previous gens were simply turned away or couldn't afford it) and they are oppressed into studying random degrees (presumably because the good ones like maths and physics are all full?) that benefit them nothing in the real world...

If any of those subjects actually exist, the student numbers will be negligible. I know it isn't quite as snappy or entertaining but numbers studying maths/sciences have broadly tracked the overall increase in student population, see Table 5 (page 25) here for instance: http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/fact...rends-2017.pdf

As for the no-platforming thing, 'elections' for a student body are always going to select for delusional authoritarians with inflated egos, just as with any other election. Thankfully they have virtually no power so they can lock themselves away in committees discussing whether the LGBT+ flag should be flown at half mast in solidarity with a lonely polar bear and any actual course content for history/politics would be set by a senior academic.

[Saracen]

I think there is a big issue with most of the people using the term snowflake are generally people that are more entitled and have had better opportunities in life and cannot see why others are pushing for social change.

As a 26 year old I feel that there are many reasons why life is much harder on my generation including house prices, low wages and many older peoples' response is to say 'it was just as hard in my day' when that is a really hard comparison to make and in a lot of cases, no it wasn't.

....

As the previous generation to yours, I can tell you from first-hand experience that buying a house has never been easy or cheap, and at 26, my chances of doing so were precisely zero. Why? After school, a year "off", prior to university ..... which was spent working, to get some experience. Then, 3 years at uni, and following that, three years (minimum) of "articles", which was basically slave-rate pay learning Chartered Accountancy.

Bear in mind, by this time (mid 80s) I couldn't afford foreign holidays at all, very rarely ate out, because again, couldn't afford to, more than once or twice a YEAR. Even visits to the pub were heavily rationed, partly because of long work hours (typically 60/week and up to 80-ish) on top of which I had to find time for study to have any chance of passing those professional exams, which made degree exams feel like a stroll in the park on a warm summer day) but mainly because, well no money.

Oh, and I was one of the lucky ones that did get to go to uni. In my day, about 5% of school leavers did, not 45%.

It was only when I hit your age, degree educated and professionally trained, that I started to make enough money that I could even afford to move out of Mum and Dads, never mind buy a house. But if I had, rent would have made it almost impossible to save for the deposit. So, there I was, nearly 30 and still living with parents.

Remember, no foreign holidays, no broadband to pay for, no mobile phone contract, rarely eating out, no fancy trainers or designer clothers, saving every penny of spare money for the deposit.

No doubt, some people my age had it easier, I knew a few, with private money. But a LOT had it much harder than I did.

Of course, by 30 I was well-paid, saving furiously and did buy a house. Shortly after that, I went self-employed and came etremely close to losing it again. There was a couple of years, getting a business started, where paying the mortgage meant dinner was yesterdsy's leftovers, and paying the gas meant getting a red letter from the electricity. Even then, the mortgage was in serious arrears.

Oh yeah, buying a house was SO easy a generation ago.



Note - But despite the very bad, lean times, buying was worth it. Now, and for some years, no mortgage and no rent. So despite several years of nose barely above water, it's paying off now, big-time.


What does get right up my nose, though, is when "kids", and I mean your approx age but children of friends and acquaintances, driving new cars, eating out most nights, clutching expensive 'premium brand' phones while showing pictures of their recent trip to, oh, South-East Asia or some far-flung glamour spot, telling me how my generation had it so much easier.

And if you really want to know how hard buying a house can be, you ought to ask my parents what they went through. I had it easy compared to them.

I was 30 before I could afford a house, and then spent nearly 10 years of financial hell trying to hold on to it.

Had it easy? Horrocks.

[Ttaskmaster]

If any of those subjects actually exist, the student numbers will be negligible.

Sadly, all of them do. I basically looked up silly things you could get a gen-you-ine university degree in.
You can get a degree in Madonna if you go to Harvard!!

Thankfully they have virtually no power so they can lock themselves away in committees discussing whether the LGBT+ flag should be flown at half mast in solidarity with a lonely polar bear and any actual course content for history/politics would be set by a senior academic.

Did the SOAS lot ever get white male philosophers removed, like they wanted?

[DanceswithUnix]

A picture of a bloke would be something like "No standing up in a trolley riding it down an up escalator" which would probably be too big to fit on the trolley handle.

[directhex]

Okay, so, let's go with a simple enough example from yesterday:

Someone posted to the Erlang programming language about their new package management tool, Coon.

A very helpful tool. Tell all your friends about Coon.

One developer pointed out that "coon" has been a racist slur for over a hundred years, in the USA.

Question 1: was he wrong to point that out?

The majority of the posters on the Erlang list circled the wagons, insisting on one of the following:

• It was short for raccoon, so clearly not related to the racist term "coon", based on a shortened form of "raccoon"
• The initial developer isn't from the US, so couldn't be expected to follow US norms on acceptability
• So what? Freedom of speech! SJW madness! Snowflakes!

A minority made arguments for a name change, based mostly on the following:

• Using a racist name for an app, even unintentionally, would deter contributions to Erlang from non-white developers (not just black people feeling directly targeted by "coon", but others waiting for libraries named "chink" or "spic" just around the corner)
• The entire Erlang community would be associated with Coon, and the assumption would be that Erlang's community is a place where racist names for apps are encouraged, regardless of raccoons.
• Changing an app name early is easy - there's no real downside before an app has traction

Question 2: who's right?

What gets my goat about this whole "snowflake" bullrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish from social conservatives is how dishonest it is.

The argument isn't "I have the right to say what I want" - that's not in doubt. You can say offensive things all you like. Nobody's stopping you. The argument is "there may not be repercussions for me being offensive". Take "No Platforming" as an example - why would students want to invite speakers purely to offend them? "Let's invite a holocaust denier, it is literally illegal not to give him a lecture theatre on demand". "Our campus LGBT Alliance must be required to listen to hard-right Christians tell them they're subhuman, otherwise we're infringing on their rights". What bull is this? Offensive people do not have a right to your eyeballs and earholes. They're free to be offensive, and free not to care about offending people. That doesn't entitle them to special treatment.

The aim should never be not to offend - it's to take responsibility for your own offensiveness. Sometimes "okay, I hadn't considered that, I'll change my behaviour" is the answer, sometimes "I really don't care what you think, rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish off" is.

Stop complaining when people point out your misbehaviours - either change your behaviour, or be honest enough to say "I don't care". It's not incumbent upon the offended to keep quiet, lest they offend you by pointing it out.

And the media over-response, and peanut gallery over-response to the media, doesn't help.

"Hey, Tesco, all the pictograms on your trolleys show women only as parents, maybe mix it up a little?" is true. Isn't it? I'm the one who does the weekly shop, my dad always did. It's not wrong to point that out. It's Tesco's choice to say "HOLY rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishBALLS LET'S FIX THAT RIGHT NOW" or "whatevs" or "okay, hadn't thought about that, we'll fix it next time we get trolleys made". Basic civility. Not such a disaster is it?

[Lanky123]

Sadly, all of them do. I basically looked up silly things you could get a gen-you-ine university degree in.
You can get a degree in Madonna if you go to Harvard!!

Well, an idiot and their money etc etc. I can't find student numbers for such degrees from a quick google but having never come across someone with a David Beckham BA I'm going to run with the assumption that they're not large enough to be too worried about.

Did the SOAS lot ever get white male philosophers removed, like they wanted?

I've never been there but it seems their students union released a 'report' on assorted minority under-representation issues about a year ago, the tabloids picked it up, the university released a 5 paragraph response on their webpage and then nothing since. Which I presume means that the wannabe-MPs had their fun, the university PR department had a 2 hour headache and the vast majority of students just carried on going to lectures.

[DanceswithUnix]

Someone posted to the Erlang programming language about their new package management tool, Coon.

What on earth have racoons got to do with packaging? Bad name all round I say.